[AMC] Better Call Saul

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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by tgb »

I always assumed it was a stroke as well, but in hindsight looking back at the last scene between Gus & Hector during BB, I'm now thinking it might have been chemically induced.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

I assume the pictures are to show that 1) Chuck is mentally unstable and 2) without Jimmy he's a danger to himself (e.g. the oil lamp sitting on top of a newspaper picture).
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Can't wait to see Kim sweat Chuck on the witness stand.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by stimpy »

Why is everyone so accomadating to Chucks phobia?
If I was an opposing lawyer, I'd come in with a watch on each wrist, one hanging from my neck like Flava Flav, a cell phone in every pocket, a walkman, headphones, miners helmet...........
Lets see him try to outsmart me then!!
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I assume the pictures are to show that 1) Chuck is mentally unstable and 2) without Jimmy he's a danger to himself (e.g. the oil lamp sitting on top of a newspaper picture).
How does that help Jimmy though? Even if Chuck is unstable, there were still witnesses to Jimmy breaking the law.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by KKBlue »

tgb wrote:Not always so much.
I'm thinking after this season of Saul, we are going to watch BB over again. Such good stuff!
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

McNutt wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I assume the pictures are to show that 1) Chuck is mentally unstable and 2) without Jimmy he's a danger to himself (e.g. the oil lamp sitting on top of a newspaper picture).
How does that help Jimmy though? Even if Chuck is unstable, there were still witnesses to Jimmy breaking the law.
Maybe to show that Jimmy needed access to the house to help Chuck and when Chuck changed the locks the only way he could get in was to break down the door? That's a reach, but I'm sure they'll play up the angle of how much Jimmy had done to help Chuck in the past. Maybe to ask for leniency? Or maybe to just embarrass Chuck in front of the bar and call in to question his fitness as a lawyer?
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

You're right. This could be a spite move from Jimmy. "If you take me down I'm going to take you down." If his condition becomes public then it could put the stink on his firm.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by naednek »

That was a fun episode
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by tgb »

I got a real Caine Mutiny vibe from that last scene.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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I'm wondering if the bar suspends his licence, but he uses changing his name as a loophole.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by hepcat »

I'm not clear on the reasons Jimmy had for flying in Chuck's ex-wife. To throw him off-guard? Spite? Reasons we will learn later?

Also, the whole trick thing felt a bit too gimmicky. Anytime something like that happens in a court room, I immediately think of an old Brady Bunch episode in which they made a loud, startling sound during a trial in order to make a defendant faking a neck injury turn their head.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by stimpy »

hepcat wrote:I'm not clear on the reasons Jimmy had for flying in Chuck's ex-wife. To throw him off-guard? Spite? Reasons we will learn later?

Also, the whole trick thing felt a bit too gimmicky. Anytime something like that happens in a court room, I immediately think of an old Brady Bunch episode in which they made a loud, startling sound during a trial in order to make a defendant faking a neck injury turn their head.
I still don't understand how everyone involved could be so accommodating to Chuck's "illness" without any sort of proof or testimony that he has, or it is, an actual condition.
If all the lawyers and judges need is the word of the someone as proof, no one would be in jail.
It just seems out of place in a series where little details are abound.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

That part doesn't surprise me as Chuck is apparently a well known and highly respected lawyer in the area. And most of those accommodations took place in meetings rather than an actual courtroom.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by KKBlue »

hepcat wrote:Also, the whole trick thing felt a bit too gimmicky. Anytime something like that happens in a court room, I immediately think of an old Brady Bunch episode in which they made a loud, startling sound during a trial in order to make a defendant faking a neck injury turn their head.
I really think I watched way too many episodes! How about Mr. B trying to prove a point and take out many items at once from the fridge or the soap powder in the washing machine sudsy overload or the special guest appearance of Davy Jones!
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Trent Steel »

hepcat wrote:I'm not clear on the reasons Jimmy had for flying in Chuck's ex-wife. To throw him off-guard? Spite? Reasons we will learn later?
To me, this forced the conversation about Chuck hiding his condition from his ex-wife to not hurt her, which is exactly Jimmy's argument for why he said he doctored the Mesa Verde paperwork to make Chuck feel better.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Trent Steel »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:That part doesn't surprise me as Chuck is apparently a well known and highly respected lawyer in the area. And most of those accommodations took place in meetings rather than an actual courtroom.
Right, this is some sort of pre-trial hearing, not an actual trial.

Also, the gimmicky trick to plant the battery on Chuck is classic Jimmy. I thought he pulled off the whole routine brilliantly.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by RunningMn9 »

This isn't a pre-trial hearing. This was just Jimmy being brought up before the NM Bar Association review board. It's not at all shocking that the NM Bar would be very accommodating to such a well-respected lawyer as Charles McGill.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by RunningMn9 »

I would also point out that Chuck specifically talked about how he was sensitive to current. A battery in his pocket would have SOME current, but not connected to anything drawing power, it would be pretty negligible.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

RunningMn9 wrote:I would also point out that Chuck specifically talked about how he was sensitive to current. A battery in his pocket would have SOME current, but not connected to anything drawing power, it would be pretty negligible.
Whether there is much current or not, a battery is enough to make Chuck feel ill. The fact that a battery has only a little current is even more evidence that is a mental rather than physical issue.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by RunningMn9 »

Well yes, I understand that it's mental. It was just odd to me for Chuck to point out a logical explanation (i.e. that he is hypersensitive to electromagnetism caused by electrical current), only to have him lose his shit over something that shouldn't trigger him based on his own rules.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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RunningMn9 wrote:This isn't a pre-trial hearing. This was just Jimmy being brought up before the NM Bar Association review board. It's not at all shocking that the NM Bar would be very accommodating to such a well-respected lawyer as Charles McGill.
Ok, well either way, the point is that it's something less formal than a trial so the accommodation of Chuck seems reasonable.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Trent Steel »

RunningMn9 wrote:I would also point out that Chuck specifically talked about how he was sensitive to current. A battery in his pocket would have SOME current, but not connected to anything drawing power, it would be pretty negligible.
However, Jimmy went out of his way to have Chuck explain that he would be able to sense anything electrical-related in close proximity to him. So while the battery may be negligible, I thought that Jimmy was able to establish Chuck admitting it would have an impact on him if it was close enough. The fact that the battery was in his jacket pocket and he was showing no ill-effects is what the committee needed to see.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Trent Steel wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote:This isn't a pre-trial hearing. This was just Jimmy being brought up before the NM Bar Association review board. It's not at all shocking that the NM Bar would be very accommodating to such a well-respected lawyer as Charles McGill.
Ok, well either way, the point is that it's something less formal than a trial so the accommodation of Chuck seems reasonable.
I was agreeing with you by way of providing the pertinent details justifying your position. :)
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by RunningMn9 »

From a TV show perspective, I have no problems with Slippin' Jimmy getting Chuck to freak the F out. Clearly Chuck thought he should have reacted to the battery, and that's the most important point.

The electrical engineer in me just found it odd. :)
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by hepcat »

Are there ANY genuine medical cases like Chuck's? Just curious if it could be a real thing.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Jimmy is such a shit. His entire plan for getting off is to destroy his brother. Yes, Chuck is a smug asshole right now, but Jimmy deserves everything that's coming to him. Chuck's rant about Jimmy was 100% true, but no one is going to listen to the babbling crazy person.

Even though Chuck has a serious mental problem, he's still a damn good lawyer and Jimmy has no problem ruining him.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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McNutt wrote:His entire plan for getting off is to destroy his brother.
And why shouldn't it be? In his mind, Chuck already nuked their relationship and now it's every man for himself.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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It should be if you're amoral like Jimmy. And why did Chuck nuke their relationship? Why don't you consider what Jimmy did to Chuck (falsifying Chuck's documents) to be nuking the relationship? That's what really killed it.

Edit - never mind. I glossed over "in his mind" in your comment and thought you were sticking up for Jimmy.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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I told Wife a few nights ago that there are people who think Chuck is the Good Guy. She was incredulous that anybody could actually root for The Man. Yes, Chuck is the Good Guy in a straighten-up-and-fly-right kind of way. Doesn't make him even remotely sympathetic though.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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McNutt wrote:It should be if you're amoral like Jimmy. And why did Chuck nuke their relationship? Why don't you consider what Jimmy did to Chuck (falsifying Chuck's documents) to be nuking the relationship? That's what really killed it.

Edit - never mind. I glossed over "in his mind" in your comment and thought you were sticking up for Jimmy.
They can both be dicks. Jimmy screwed over Chuck (falsifying documents) but that was in response to Chuck and HHM being dicks and not giving Kim what she deserved for her Mesa Verde work.

The biggest problem with Chuck was a lack of empathy, honestly. Jimmy tends to do things that are ethically wrong but morally right (falsifying Chuck's documents) whereas Chuck was always ethically correct but morally lacking at times (getting Jimmy shut out of HHM and not admitting to Jimmy that he was behind it).

They're both wrong in different ways. That's what makes the whole thing so damn tragic.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Chuck is a good guy. The only thing he's done that wasn't cool was not telling Jimmy himself that he couldn't be a lawyer at HHM. However, that does not make him a bad guy.

Every episode shows at least two things Jimmy does that makes it clear that Jimmy is a bad guy.
Jimmy tends to do things that are ethically wrong but morally right (falsifying Chuck's documents)
This blows my mind. How in the world can you call what Jimmy did with those documents morally right? He wanted his friend to get this client so he professionally embarrassed his brother and sent him to the hospital. What Jimmy did was ethically and morally reprehensible.

Kim brought in a big client, but HHM were not being dicks with how they treated her. Kim had shown some very bad judgment and I understood her being in the doghouse. And there is no damn way any firm is going to give a big client to a lawyer who leaves their practice. Why would they do that?
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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We have yet to see if there was a catalyst for Chuck's "condition". I suspect if there is one, it may change many a mind.

Chuck is human. He's jealous of his brother's ability to seem like the good guy while he's doing rotten things. He's seen the betrayal of their parents by Jimmy, and he's angry that they didn't feel the same indignation as he. But he does love his brother. When he adds little caveats about his brother being a good person at heart, I don't hear any sarcasm. I hear sincerity.

Jimmy is human. He wants to succeed, but the only thing he's really good at is conning people. Taking advantage of them. But the funny thing is, he doesn't seem to feel contempt for those he cons. He's not a sociopath. He cares about people. But he can't help himself.

Everyone on the show has redeeming features, just as everyone on the show has damning ones.

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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Smoove_B »

hepcat wrote:Are there ANY genuine medical cases like Chuck's? Just curious if it could be a real thing.
There are some people that claim to suffer from it yes. I remember learning about these women a few years ago. The WaPo did a write up in 2015 covering the court case associated with it. In short:
There are two primary schools of thought here: The first, that environmental conditions that are not Wifi could trigger EHS; and the second, that it represents a sort of reverse-placebo effect.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Kraken wrote:I told Wife a few nights ago that there are people who think Chuck is the Good Guy. She was incredulous that anybody could actually root for The Man. Yes, Chuck is the Good Guy in a straighten-up-and-fly-right kind of way. Doesn't make him even remotely sympathetic though.
Yeah, I'm with you. I really don't see how anyone thinks Chuck is "the Good Guy." Chuck is a pretty vile person who seems motivated by jealousy to destroy Jimmy's life. The lengths he has gone to are pretty extreme.

That said, Jimmy is certainly not a good guy either. More sympathetic, for sure, since so much of his behavior can be attributed to his dad and Chuck. But still a very amoral character.

I see it as Chuck does legal manipulations for the wrong reasons. Jimmy does wrong things for (sometimes) the right reasons. Sometimes he just does them because they are self serving. Both people are morally repugnant to me. I just feel sorry for Jimmy and think Chuck deserves whatever is about to happen to him (depending on just how bad it is!).
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Papa Smurph wrote: I see it as Chuck does legal manipulations for the wrong reasons.
When has Chuck used the law for the wrong reasons? Are you saying Jimmy didn't deserve to go before the Bar for breaking the law and acting in a completely unethical manner? The only thing Chuck did was hold Jimmy accountable for his actions. If this were real life we'd all be rooting for Chuck for slamming that piece of crap. But since it's a TV show that follows Jimmy, Chuck is wrong for doing that. Yes, Chuck is jealous of Jimmy's ability to charm people. Yes, Jimmy has gone above and beyond to help Chuck. But does that mean Chuck has to just sit back when Jimmy drops a neutron bomb on everybody?
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Papa Smurph »

McNutt wrote:
Papa Smurph wrote: I see it as Chuck does legal manipulations for the wrong reasons.
When has Chuck used the law for the wrong reasons? Are you saying Jimmy didn't deserve to go before the Bar for breaking the law and acting in a completely unethical manner? The only thing Chuck did was hold Jimmy accountable for his actions. If this were real life we'd all be rooting for Chuck for slamming that piece of crap. But since it's a TV show that follows Jimmy, Chuck is wrong for doing that. Yes, Chuck is jealous of Jimmy's ability to charm people. Yes, Jimmy has gone above and beyond to help Chuck. But does that mean Chuck has to just sit back when Jimmy drops a neutron bomb on everybody?
I think you are overlooking the fact that Chuck has orchestrated situations to "force" Jimmy into his behavior. I mean, if Jimmy was my brother, I would be looking to help him. Chuck seems focused on screwing Jimmy over at every opportunity: preventing him from joining HHM, getting him fired from the other firm, setting him up to be disbarred. Chuck should be trying to help Jimmy, but that seems to be the furthest thing from his mind.

Oh, I hear Chuck saying that helping Jimmy is what he is doing, but I don't believe it for one second. There are lots of ways to help Jimmy, destroying his life is not one of them! Bad guys never think they are bad guys, and in this case both brothers are bad guys.

EDITED TO ADD
Didn't you hear Chuck in the last episode: the "sanctity of the law" matters more to him than his own brother! WTF?! The law is not some absolute thing, it is interpreted according to the situation. The love for one sibling should be an absolute thing. This one statement is enough for me to condemn Chuck.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by tgb »

In fairness to Chuck, he didn't get Jimmy fired from Davis & Main - Jimmy did that himself.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Papa Smurph wrote: I think you are overlooking the fact that Chuck has orchestrated situations to "force" Jimmy into his behavior.
Chuck set Jimmy up one time and was completely justified in doing so. Jimmy should definitely be disbarred and I don't know how you could think otherwise. Chuck might have been partially motivated by jealousy, but Jimmy deserved everything that happened to him.
I mean, if Jimmy was my brother, I would be looking to help him.
Jimmy does not have some illness like alcoholism where he needs help. He's just an asshole who doesn't care about screwing people over. How does someone help a grown man be a different person? Why are you blaming Chuck for Jimmy's behavior?
Chuck seems focused on screwing Jimmy over at every opportunity: preventing him from joining HHM,
This seems to be a popular point of contention against Chuck. We want Jimmy to succeed and we blame people that we see as preventing that. But why in the world would Chuck give Jimmy a job as an associate at HHM? That is insanity. Jimmy doesn't have the credentials they probably require and being Chuck's brother only means that Chuck knows what a terrible person Jimmy is. Hiring him would be totally irresponsible. Now I'll grant you that Chuck should have told Jimmy himself instead of making Howard be that bad guy. But hiring Jimmy? Are you serious?
getting him fired from the other firm
Chuck had no part in that. Jimmy was a total asshole to a firm that was great to him.
setting him up to be disbarred.
He should be disbarred and why do we think Chuck should not be furious after what Jimmy did to him?
Oh, I hear Chuck saying that helping Jimmy is what he is doing, but I don't believe it for one second. There are lots of ways to help Jimmy, destroying his life is not one of them! Bad guys never think they are bad guys, and in this case both brothers are bad guys.
Chuck feels that Jimmy's ability to practice the law is like giving matches to a child. Taking that away from him is the best thing for him. Jimmy has proven over and over that he will be VERY unethical in his practice of the law. That's not going to sit well with someone like Chuck who is a lawyer's lawyer.
Didn't you hear Chuck in the last episode: the "sanctity of the law" matters more to him than his own brother! WTF?! The law is not some absolute thing, it is interpreted according to the situation. The love for one sibling should be an absolute thing. This one statement is enough for me to condemn Chuck.
When your brother is a slimeball like Jimmy I can totally understand that.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by RunningMn9 »

If hiring young, newly-minted lawyer Jimmy would have been totally irresponsible, why did Howard want to do it? You see Jimmy through Chuck's eyes, so you react like Chuck.

We see Jimmy through Jimmy's eyes. So we see the constant demeaning and betrayal. Chuck helped make Jimmy what he is today. When Jimmy put his nose to the grindstone and worked his way through law school he was trying to do the right thing - how did that work out?

Every time Jimmy tries to do the right thing, how does it work out? Jimmy ends up doing the wrong thing to achieve what he believes is the right result.

Yes, Slippin' Jimmy is always in there, and he's willing to do seriously shady shit. But he's a product of circumstance in many ways. And Chuck is one of those circumstances.

We resent Chuck because we want Jimmy to be the hero, and Chuck has been shitting on him his whole life.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
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Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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