[AMC] Better Call Saul

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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

This season Jimmy was a completely different person. While he was still a snake, there was never any joy in his life. Kim is starting to see this too and was really hurt that he was able to manipulate people using his dead brother so effortlessly.

I really liked the flashback showing Chuck having a good time with Jimmy.

Mike's killing of Werner marked a serious change in him. Mike was always a guy who like doing the right thing and did not like hurting people who didn't deserve it. Werner was different. He was a nice guy who just wanted to see his wife and didn't realize the line he had crossed. You could see that Mike hated to kill Werner. It had to be done though and Mike did it because he felt he could be the most humane about it and Werner could go out with some dignity, not be shot on his knees by a stranger. Mike also knew that he had professionally turned the corner and was a guy who could kill people for a job.

So does Werner's team get killed now too?
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Don't think so. Pretty sure Mike told Gus they were all trustworthy and would go back home and remain quiet.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Gus has shown that Mike's vouching for someone means squat.

Speaking of miserable sons of bitches, Gus might be the most miserable person in TV history.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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McNutt wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:16 am
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:35 pm Vaguely. Perhaps I should narrow the question: is this the first time in either BCS or Breaking Bad that we've seen Mike kill someone as part of his job?
In Breaking Bad Mike killed several people in some warehouse when they had tied up the employees. There was a cool scene where a bad guy was on the other side of the wall and Mike knew it, held the gun to the wall, looked at the hostage who signaled for him to aim higher, then popped him.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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I'll take Gus over Lalo. That guy seriously gives me the creeps.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Clearly I need to rewatch Breaking Bad because I barely remember those scenes.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Smoove_B »

Not coming back until 2020, as per AMC:
Barnett was careful to note that the decision to delay the show until next year was “driven by talent needs,” and refused to give any hint about how much longer the critically acclaimed Vince Gilligan series might continue at AMC.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Smoove_B wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:23 pm Not coming back until 2020, as per AMC:
Barnett was careful to note that the decision to delay the show until next year was “driven by talent needs,” and refused to give any hint about how much longer the critically acclaimed Vince Gilligan series might continue at AMC.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Best show on TV right now.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Looks like we're closing in on the Breaking Bad timeline. Somewhere out there, Walter White is finding out that he has cancer.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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I have started re-watching season 4 so I will be up to speed come 2-23. Great for catching little nuances I may have missed.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Like how Jimmy is the real asshole? :wink:
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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McNutt wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:26 pm Like how Jimmy is the real asshole? :wink:
Right behind Howard :wink:
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Jaymann wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:33 pm
McNutt wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:26 pm Like how Jimmy is the real asshole? :wink:
Right behind Howard :wink:
That man is a saint!
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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McNutt wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:23 pm
Jaymann wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:33 pm
McNutt wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:26 pm Like how Jimmy is the real asshole? :wink:
Right behind Howard :wink:
That man is a saint!
No... No he isint.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Howard was a decent guy considering (almost) everyone around him. The only slip up in his character that I can agree on was his treatment of Kim at times. Other than that, Howard was practically a moral rock.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Kim deserved it! We like Kim, but she deserved an ass chewing and it was Howard's obligation to dish it out. Wake up, sheeple!
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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I don’t know. Sometimes I think he went a bit overboard in his punishment of Kim. But like I said, Howard is far from a villain in the world of Better Call Saul.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Jaymann wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:33 pm
McNutt wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:26 pm Like how Jimmy is the real asshole? :wink:
Right behind Chuck. :wink:
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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hepcat wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:11 am Howard was a decent guy considering (almost) everyone around him. The only slip up in his character that I can agree on was his treatment of Kim at times. Other than that, Howard was practically a moral rock.
Are we forgetting that Howard told Jimmy (Saul?) that the others didn't want him working at his law firm after Jimmy got his correspondence law degree? Then personally made sure Jimmy was never hired? Then went back to get him a job at a different firm out of guilt after the damage was done years later?

And Jimmy played along with, and tried to get help for poor Chuck at every step of the way with his EMP phobia?

Hell Jimmy was the only one to give Chuck the benefit of the doubt. Chucks law firm killed him in every sense but the last act.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Drazzil wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:22 am
hepcat wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:11 am Howard was a decent guy considering (almost) everyone around him. The only slip up in his character that I can agree on was his treatment of Kim at times. Other than that, Howard was practically a moral rock.
Are we forgetting that Howard told Jimmy (Saul?) that the others didn't want him working at his law firm after Jimmy got his correspondence law degree? Then personally made sure Jimmy was never hired? Then went back to get him a job at a different firm out of guilt after the damage was done years later?

And Jimmy played along with, and tried to get help for poor Chuck at every step of the way with his EMP phobia?

Hell Jimmy was the only one to give Chuck the benefit of the doubt. Chucks law firm killed him in every sense but the last act.
Did you watch Better Call Saul? If you had, you'd have known that Chuck was the one that played on Howard's loyalty to prevent him from getting a job at their firm. That wasn't what Howard wanted to do. The fact that he then went and helped Jimmy to get a job with a different firm just serves to strengthen what McNutt and I wrote.

As for Jimmy, I'm not sure what, if anything, he could possibly do at this point to convince you he's really not a good person. He wants to be, sure. But he's not. The show has slowly but surely been building the case that Jimmy is just a con-man through and through. I'm not sure how you could possibly not see that. :?
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Howard is the one who does the dirty work. When Chuck told him that Jimmy would not me a good fit at HHM, Howard had to deliver the news, even though he might have disagreed.
When Kim was letting Jimmy influence her, Howard had to give her the riot act.
When Chuck, who was a God In Howard's eyes, became a liability to HHM, Howard was the one to tell him.
Outside of the dirty work, we have seen that Howard is a damn decent guy.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Yeah and outside the dirty work Stalin was a decent guy.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Denying Jimmy a job at his firm because Jimmy's very own brother AND one of the cofounders of your company who just happens to be your beloved mentor asked him to...and then getting Jimmy a good job at another firm = Stalinesque crimes against humanity? Really?
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Just an over the top way of indicating that dirty deeds = dirty guy. A lot of people in Russia thought Stalin was a saint.

One of the things I love about season 4 is both Kim AND Jimmy rip Howard a new A-hole.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Remember when Jimmy and Kim pulled a con on an innocent guy at a hotel restaurant for fun? That was a pretty Stalin move, man.

Howard isn’t perfect, but he at least has tried to do the decent thing most of the time. Jimmy tries too...until an easier or more exciting path is apparent. Then he’ll screw over anyone in his way.

Howard you can leave your dog with for a weekend and you’ll get it back in one piece. Jimmy will sell the dog for parts and hand you back a leash on Monday.

How anyone can come away from watching this show (post season 1 at least) with the belief that Jimmy is a good guy is beyond me. That’s pretty much the entire point of this prequel show. Even Kim is beginning to realize that Jimmy is a pretty shitty human being...and she’s also becoming aware he’s pulling her down with him.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Jimmy is no saint, but he can be fiercely loyal. Witness how he went above and beyond to keep his friend Huell out of jail, when he was about to be railroaded by the system.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Kim is realizing that not only is Jimmy a bad guy, but he's a horrible influence on her. She enjoys dabbing on the dark side, but unlike Jimmy, she doesn't want to live that way.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Jaymann wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:17 pm Jimmy is no saint, but he can be fiercely loyal. Witness how he went above and beyond to keep his friend Huell out of jail, when he was about to be railroaded by the system.
That’s one way of looking at it, I suppose. Personally, I look at it as Jimmy conning a bunch of people, while dragging along Kim to help him commit said con.

As I said earlier. Jimmy wants to be a good guy, but it’s not in his nature. Instead of working within the system to get Huell released or at least a reduced sentence, Jimmy has to break the law...and he compromises Kim while doing so. He saw that easier path and laws be damned.

Jimmy is lovable. Don’t confuse that with goodness.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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hepcat wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:39 pm Remember when Jimmy and Kim pulled a con on an innocent guy at a hotel restaurant for fun? That was a pretty Stalin move, man.

Howard isn’t perfect, but he at least has tried to do the decent thing most of the time. Jimmy tries too...until an easier or more exciting path is apparent. Then he’ll screw over anyone in his way.

Howard you can leave your dog with for a weekend and you’ll get it back in one piece. Jimmy will sell the dog for parts and hand you back a leash on Monday.

How anyone can come away from watching this show (post season 1 at least) with the belief that Jimmy is a good guy is beyond me. That’s pretty much the entire point of this prequel show. Even Kim is beginning to realize that Jimmy is a pretty shitty human being...and she’s also becoming aware he’s pulling her down with him.
Having watched Better Call Saul season 4 (when it first came out through... less then legal means) I see Jimmy who tried to do things the right way but found himself boxed in until he was already sort of on a bad path.

The thing that boggled me was his leaving that cush job to go do what again? He could have worked that job, taken a few years to learn the ropes and hung his own shingle. (But then he was already on a war path by then)
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Drazzil wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:17 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:39 pm Remember when Jimmy and Kim pulled a con on an innocent guy at a hotel restaurant for fun? That was a pretty Stalin move, man.

Howard isn’t perfect, but he at least has tried to do the decent thing most of the time. Jimmy tries too...until an easier or more exciting path is apparent. Then he’ll screw over anyone in his way.

Howard you can leave your dog with for a weekend and you’ll get it back in one piece. Jimmy will sell the dog for parts and hand you back a leash on Monday.

How anyone can come away from watching this show (post season 1 at least) with the belief that Jimmy is a good guy is beyond me. That’s pretty much the entire point of this prequel show. Even Kim is beginning to realize that Jimmy is a pretty shitty human being...and she’s also becoming aware he’s pulling her down with him.
Having watched Better Call Saul season 4 (when it first came out through... less then legal means) I see Jimmy who tried to do things the right way but found himself boxed in until he was already sort of on a bad path.
Here's the thing: Jimmy wasn't boxed in when he stole money from his father's store as a child. He wasn't boxed in when we first see him as a young man in the flashbacks in season 1. He wasn't boxed in when he started a cell phone scam for the cell phone company that hired him. He is a con man because he loves taking advantage of people. They didn't call him Slippin' Jimmy because of his propensity for wearing crisco and daring the neighbor kids to catch him (I never got caught, by the way!). He earned that nickname through years of being a slippery weasel.
The thing that boggled me was his leaving that cush job to go do what again? He could have worked that job, taken a few years to learn the ropes and hung his own shingle. (But then he was already on a war path by then)
Again, this is Jimmy's raison d'être. He lives for the easier path, the exciting one. The one in which he doesn't actually have to follow the laws, and can prove to himself that he's smarter than anyone else. He is a criminal. Period. Full stop. The entire point of Better Call Saul is to prove that.

Sure, habitual criminals can be charming. But at the end of the day, they're still not good people since their very existence hinges on victimizing others to some extent.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Smoove_B »

Hepcat gets it -- it's amazing how many people are dazzled by Jimmy. He's a great character, but make no mistake he's always running some type of con. The fact that he's so damn charming and likeable helps him to succeed and maintain appearances. Chuck's behavior towards Jimmy isn't Chuck's universal behavior towards others. Jimmy is Jimmy - always.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Huell, on the other hand, is Better Call Saul's sweetheart.

side note: I was reading back over my musings from season 1 in this thread, and I realize I did think Jimmy was the hero of the story at the time. It's a testimony to the writing on this show that they slowly but surely turned me away from that conclusion in the later seasons.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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hepcat wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:17 pm Huell, on the other hand, is Better Call Saul's sweetheart.

side note: I was reading back over my musings from season 1 in this thread, and I realize I did think Jimmy was the hero of the story at the time. It's a testimony to the writing on this show that they slowly but surely turned me away from that conclusion in the later seasons.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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No, just more observant and less biased. It's easy to find Jimmy likeable. For some it's hard to let that go even as the evidence starts to pile up to the contrary.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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hepcat wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:36 pm
Drazzil wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:17 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:39 pm Remember when Jimmy and Kim pulled a con on an innocent guy at a hotel restaurant for fun? That was a pretty Stalin move, man.

Howard isn’t perfect, but he at least has tried to do the decent thing most of the time. Jimmy tries too...until an easier or more exciting path is apparent. Then he’ll screw over anyone in his way.

Howard you can leave your dog with for a weekend and you’ll get it back in one piece. Jimmy will sell the dog for parts and hand you back a leash on Monday.

How anyone can come away from watching this show (post season 1 at least) with the belief that Jimmy is a good guy is beyond me. That’s pretty much the entire point of this prequel show. Even Kim is beginning to realize that Jimmy is a pretty shitty human being...and she’s also becoming aware he’s pulling her down with him.
Having watched Better Call Saul season 4 (when it first came out through... less then legal means) I see Jimmy who tried to do things the right way but found himself boxed in until he was already sort of on a bad path.
Here's the thing: Jimmy wasn't boxed in when he stole money from his father's store as a child. He wasn't boxed in when we first see him as a young man in the flashbacks in season 1. He wasn't boxed in when he started a cell phone scam for the cell phone company that hired him. He is a con man because he loves taking advantage of people. They didn't call him Slippin' Jimmy because of his propensity for wearing crisco and daring the neighbor kids to catch him (I never got caught, by the way!). He earned that nickname through years of being a slippery weasel.
The thing that boggled me was his leaving that cush job to go do what again? He could have worked that job, taken a few years to learn the ropes and hung his own shingle. (But then he was already on a war path by then)
Again, this is Jimmy's raison d'être. He lives for the easier path, the exciting one. The one in which he doesn't actually have to follow the laws, and can prove to himself that he's smarter than anyone else. He is a criminal. Period. Full stop. The entire point of Better Call Saul is to prove that.

Sure, habitual criminals can be charming. But at the end of the day, they're still not good people since their very existence hinges on victimizing others to some extent.
The same dad who blew money out the door to any sob story and ran a failing business?

Remember the retirement home where he basically bypassed making MORE money to make the two old ladies friends again?

The way I remember the cell phone thing is that he was working comission only on a dead store and merely found a market in selling mass amounts of phones to people who had a need for privacy, legit or otherwise. Thats capitalism. I want to say that if I had to unload a thousand phones, I'd be that sharp.

He didn't force that sort of shady guy to buy a hundred phones, he sold privacy.

Oh and I remember him starting a marketing company and increasing one guys business like a thousand percent and getting legitimately screwed.

I mean I remember BCS as a sort of case study on how many times a guy has to be wronged before he says FTW and tries... Other things?

(Its been at least two years, hazy on the details, was I imagining any part of this?)
Last edited by Drazzil on Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Drazzil wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:20 pm
The same dad who blew money out the door to any sob story and ran a failing business?
Yes. I don't think that point does what you want it to do though. :?
Remember the retirement home where he basically bypassed making MORE money to make the two old ladies friends again?

(Its been at least two years, hazy on the details, was I imagining any part of this?)
Yes. Do you remember WHY she had been ostracized by her friends? Hint: it was Jimmy's fault.
The way I remember the cell phone thing is that he was working commission only on a dead store and merely found a market in selling mass amounts of phones to people who had a need for privacy, legit or otherwise. Thats capitalism. I want to say that if I had to unload a thousand phones, I'd be that sharp.
That's not capitalism. Also, remind me to never do business with you in any capacity.
Last edited by hepcat on Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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