[Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

[Blackhawk]

I'm not fancy enough for a chiffon mask, dahling.

[dbt1949]

So now you have to get two shots and wear two-three masks and keep social distancing.

[Blackhawk]

Such is the price we're paying for not acting before this thing started mutating. We had time, we took steps to buy even more time, and then we spent that time shooting dollar store guards and yelling "FREEDOM!" like William Wallace.

[Paingod]

Got my second shot yesterday at 4:15pm. The "booster". By 11:00pm I was starting to feel joint aches, starting with my jaw of all things.

This morning I feel like I have a minor flu - lots of little aches, chills, and some fatigue - and want to just be home in bed, but don't want to burn PTO for a vaccination. My shoulder also feels like someone a little bigger than me hit it as hard as they could.

Still, better than the alternative. In 10 days I should have a harder time getting COVID and giving it to anyone else.

[Jeff V]

My daughter has problems with a single mask...her ears are too floppy and they just don't do a good job keeping the loops from slipping right off. FWIW, the double-mask advice is for those who have problems getting a single one to fit properly.

Have you looked at any of the "ear saver" options? Typically, they are some sort of band that hooks onto the ear loops so that the mask doesn't need to rely on the ears to stay in place.

Thanks, I'll look into it.

[Isgrimnur]

Got rubber bands?

[Paingod]

I tried using a big paper clip to hold the ends together behind my head. This ensured the mask would never fall off, but didn't solve the issue of the straps digging into the flesh over my ears. I think I'm building callouses there, though. I can wear a mask now for 9 hours without pain.

[noxiousdog]

So now you have to get two shots and wear two-three masks and keep social distancing.

That's what happens when there are nearly 500,000 dead Americans.

[Max Peck]

Got rubber bands?

Some boot bands that I had on hand were my go-to ear loop hack before I found some ear-saver bands that suited me.

[Daehawk]

The elastic bands on my mask are stretched. It kept falling down today. Going to have to tie a knot in them.

Or slide my ears back.

[hitbyambulance]

The elastic bands on my mask are stretched. It kept falling down today. Going to have to tie a knot in them.

i have two pairs that do not fit well, so i'm going to cut the loops in the middle on each and convert them to 'tie' attachments

[Sudy]

I appreciate everyone's replies... I'm just frustrated that mask development/distribution hasn't come further by this point. I know what has occurred is probably pretty remarkable, but a large segment of the population continues to treat this like a problem that's going to quickly fade away on its own. My gripes about having trouble breathing in masks is a personal one. It's frustrating because I want to have an abundance of caution for both myself and others, but due to my own unrelated health issues it's very hard to go beyond the minimum. Thankfully I still have the privilege of working from home and go out once or twice a week for supplies, at most.

Locally, there are numerous articles from doctors and statisticians popping up that now is an extremely foolish time to open back up, even though cases have dropped 75% from where they were a month ago. (The province locked down hard about six weeks ago.) Yes, it's planned to be a tiered re-opening. And yes, infection rates are much lower in more rural areas. But I just don't understand why the government wants to encourage elective outings, other than economic alarmism and maintaining approval with the right. It seems like it would be much safer to stay in full lockdown a little longer, for the benefit of both infection rates and the economy.

Meanwhile, my workplace has still done almost nothing to reduce risk for the staff who are still working on site. They did finally cordon off every other cubicle (something we talked about at the very beginning of the pandemic but never did), but it only seems to be after a visit from the ministry of labour. Of course, the most effective thing would be to get more staff working from home, but for some reason we haven't done that. Inexplicably, we've allowed some staff to give ultimatums and return to work, remotely, after multiple weeks off. Others we've let walk. Meanwhile it's been suggested to some others that they'll be permitted to work from home, but it never seems to happen and they just keep coming in day after day. At this point about 70% of supervision is working remotely, compared to probably 20% of course staff. I don't understand why there isn't a riot, other than us all being slaves to capitalism who don't want to look for work during the pandemic. No, the company isn't legally required to allow staff to work from home. But you'd really think they'd recognize it's in everyone's best interest.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Some interesting perspective from Ireland on lockdown logic…

https://nitter.1d4.us/NickClairmont1/st ... 9236824066

Stick with me for a story about how the logic of lockdowns can turn into something really sinister.

It begins with a Golden Retriever named Neesha.

Neesha and her little pup sibling Harley were lost on an hike, taking in the outdoor air in the Wicklow Mountains.


If you've never been to Ireland, you should understand that these are 1) right near the city where most of the country lives and 2) the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.


The dogs had bolted, and the owners had only ben able to find Harley. They thought Neesha was dead. But miraculously, two doctors on a hike in Wicklow found Neesha almost two full weeks later.


She lost a third of her body weight, but now she is at home, snuggled up and warm with her family.


So far, so nothing-sinister. An incredibly sweet story of a pup that got home. But what I feel like a lot of my American friends don't know is that Europeans are living under lockdown restrictions we have never had here, with actual enforcement. So the dog-rescuing hero doctor?

Well you see, in Ireland, you can't go more than 5km from your house. It's not just notional either. 8000 fines have been given out in the little 4.5 million person Republic. You really aren't allowed out. You can't meet people outside, or take a long walk.

This has been the case since October, when a 6 week lockdown was announced to "save Christmas." That was extended and is now set to last until at least May. Most recently, for no scientific reason, the government has proposed lowering the 5km radius to 2km.

So in the Wicklow Mountains, a boutique hotel has been offering some of the only people allowed to be regarded as people instead of just viral vectors--healthcare workers--mental health retreats. You know, because the lockdowns are psychological torture.

Pretty cool that this mountain retreat of sanity was available to the doctors, in this country where everyone is unable to see friends even outside, and police check if you are too far from your house. But wait…


Some concerned citizen, a vigilant lockdown rules-enforcer, read the heartwarming story about doctors returning a stranded dog to its family and thought they should call the police.

Turns out, the hike may have been too long, so the doctors are under investigation and the hotel shut now.

Is the fact that any of this mutual surveillance and punishment is what following the rules looks like a sign of a healthy society?

Do my American friends know that in the UK right now, you can go jog in the park, but you can't meet anyone there, and you can't sit down? Much of Europe is living in what sounds like a paranoid fantasy prediction from what people here in the US said could happen.

Look at this dog. Look at her. Somebody saw this picture and thought, "Those criminals. I'm calling the cops."


For becoming a place where hotels offering retreats to exhausted doctors who save cold, sad, stranded Golden Retrievers get shut down after curtain-twitching lunatics call the police on them, Ireland currently has about the Covid death rate of Virginia.

[The Meal]

Re: My COVID-19 Lifestyle:



My four fill-ups in the last 12 months (including today!).

[LordMortis]

I'm up to fueling about twice every three months. I fill shy of a 12 gallons in the tank when I fill up and get around 40mpg. I think that makes four total fill ups in 11 months or shy of 2,000 miles. I was about 1,000 miles a month before COVID and primary WFH and cutting shopping trips, friends and family from my life.

The promises to cut auto insurance were mostly a lie. I've spent under $100 in a gas in year. I've spent $1,130 in auto insurance for PLPD (Personal liability, no collision)

[Blackhawk]

No such luck for us. The kids still go to school in the next county, the grocery store is still in the next county in the other direction, and Michelle still needs to get to work. We're driving as much as ever. We're just not going anywhere when we get there.

[Jeff V]

Our Rogue gets filled about every 5 days, 4 if we make a run to the Filipino supermarket in Albany Park. The Versa mostly sits in the driveway and a couple of weeks I had to jump it because it was dead after months of inactivity. I filled it about 2 weeks ago, and will probably take it in for maintenance later this week or next.

[AWS260]

This is a pretty heartbreaking video about working in a COVID ICU. Thank you to Xmann and all the nurses caring for patients with COVID.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/opin ... izona.html

[Paingod]

The places in the US that have simply decided to kill off as many people as possible through arrogance infuriate me. I simply don't understand how people can see HALF A MILLION DEAD and think "Pfft. I'm gonna go get drunk and party!"

The concern for healthcare workers' mental health is real. I don't know how they do it.

[Anonymous Bosch]

The places in the US that have simply decided to kill off as many people as possible through arrogance infuriate me. I simply don't understand how people can see HALF A MILLION DEAD and think "Pfft. I'm gonna go get drunk and party!"

The concern for healthcare workers' mental health is real. I don't know how they do it.

It's effortless to judge others by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions, so perhaps they aren't all necessarily quite so malicious? Mike Rowe sensibly and coherently addresses the subject with all the discussions he's had regarding "Safety Third" and the costs of putting safety first, and I defy anyone to listen to what he has to say and come away thinking he (or others like him) seeks to kill off as many people as possible:

[Daehawk]

I dont think people will change even if it gets to 20 million dead or more.

[Victoria Raverna]

I dont think people will change even if it gets to 20 million dead or more.

People will change when it is no longer just a number. When their close friends or family members are part of the 20 millions, they'll change.

[YellowKing]

Gov. Cooper relaxed restrictions yesterday for the first time since last March. Bars, movie theaters, and other indoor entertainment venues will be allowed to open at 30% capacity. He's lifted the 10pm curfew and upped the social gathering limits. Teachers are currently being mass vaccinated so full in-person learning will start back soon.

In the past he's been quick to pump the brakes if cases start rising, so I have no doubt he'll do so again if necessary. But for now every measurement is on a significant downward trend.

It's the first time since this began I've started to see a glimmer of hope.

[Smoove_B]

It's the first time since this began I've started to see a glimmer of hope.

I think it was Colbert that observed that nationwide we're at peak Summer 2020 levels right now, in terms of COVID cases.

With the new variants circulating, things could get...interesting.

[hitbyambulance]

It's the first time since this began I've started to see a glimmer of hope.

I think it was Colbert that observed that nationwide we're at peak Summer 2020 levels right now, in terms of COVID cases.

With the new variants circulating, things could get...interesting.

it only seems low relative to ... last month:

[LordMortis]

It's the first time since this began I've started to see a glimmer of hope.

I think it was Colbert that observed that nationwide we're at peak Summer 2020 levels right now, in terms of COVID cases.

With the new variants circulating, things could get...interesting.

I think it was LordMortis who observed that when you were reporting the the numbers were inexplicable dropping.

[YellowKing]

Shrug. What goes up must come down. While I'm aware levels are still not *good,* the fact remains they're going in the right direction, our hospitalizations are now < 20 where they at one point were well over 100, and vaccines are getting into arms. At those summer 2020 levels we had no vaccine and a looming winter spike ahead of us. There's reason to be optimistic.

[hitbyambulance]

It's the first time since this began I've started to see a glimmer of hope.

I think it was Colbert that observed that nationwide we're at peak Summer 2020 levels right now, in terms of COVID cases.

With the new variants circulating, things could get...interesting.

it only seems low relative to ... last month:

oopsie doopsie

[Smoove_B]

There's reason to be optimistic.

Absolutely. The concern is that the floodgates are going to open and people will change their behaviors thinking we're at the finish line. We're definitely in a better spot, but we don't want to backslide; we need to continue to do what has been working.

oopsie doopsie

Yeah, cases in NJ are trending up again. Not sure if it's a data "blip" or a new trend. We're ~2 weeks after Valentine's Day, though I'm not entire sure that was a driver like Xmas or the Superbowl. I guess we'll see soon enough, particularly now that the NYC variant is raising concerns.

[Sudy]

I just don't get it. Even relatively mature, intelligent people I know are employing fewer precautions than recommended. My friend is dating new people. Like in the flesh, going on outings. Another long time friend celebrated when restaurants were allowed to re-open for dine-in. I understand; he's an extrovert and feels isolated. I get that life is fleeting, and putting things on hold indefinitely may be panic inducing, but I'm seriously starting to question my own sanity when I seem to be one of the few people left in my social/professional circle who gives a crap.

Covid didn't make me a hermit, it just revealed it suited me. NASA should just examine my life rather than doing long term Martian habitation studies in the desert.

[Blackhawk]

We're ~2 weeks after Valentine's Day, though I'm not entire sure that was a driver like Xmas or the Superbowl. I guess we'll see soon enough, particularly now that the NYC variant is raising concerns.

We're also a few weeks into the drop and people, as you said, are throwing caution to the wind. I wonder if we're seeing Valentine's combined with a nationwide drop in precautions.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I just don't get it. Even relatively mature, intelligent people I know are employing fewer precautions than recommended. My friend is dating new people. Like in the flesh, going on outings. Another long time friend celebrated when restaurants were allowed to re-open for dine-in. I understand; he's an extrovert and feels isolated. I get that life is fleeting, and putting things on hold indefinitely may be panic inducing, but I'm seriously starting to question my own sanity when I seem to be one of the few people left in my social/professional circle who gives a crap.

Covid didn't make me a hermit, it just revealed it suited me. NASA should just examine my life rather than doing long term Martian habitation studies in the desert.

Keep in mind, the chief goal of living is not to merely stay alive. We all live and function with differing levels of risk equilibrium and personal risk assessment. Some people feel cautious driving in excess of the speed limit, while others routinely exceed it. Some routinely eat junk food, while others avoid it all costs. Some leap out of aircraft for fun and rely upon a large piece of thin cloth to carry them safely back to earth, while others would be horrified at the prospect. And so on and so forth…

The point being, risk is deeply personal and we all have a differing tolerance for risk. And risk equilibrium is defined by how one adjusts their behaviour to adapt to their circumstances. So if living like a hermit suits you but not your friends, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily equate to them being thoughtlessly selfish and reckless assholes, even if you'd never dream of conducting yourself in a similar way as them. It's simply unreasonable and unrealistic to expect others to conduct themselves identically to whatever particular risk tolerance you happen to have developed over a lifetime of personal experiences.

[Blackhawk]

If you jump out of a plane with a thin piece of cloth and it goes badly, you die. Your risk, your death, your problem, your business. I'm fine with that.

The difference here is that while risk tolerance may be a personal thing, in this case the impact isn't personal, it's communal. You're not just taking risks with yourself, you're increasing the risks for everyone around you, and everyone around them. That makes one person's risk another person's business.

[Zarathud]

If your risk tolerance creates the breeding ground for disease, it’s time for society to step in.

Why? Because your risk tolerance doesn’t take into account the public or facts or the law. It doesn’t matter if it comes from selfishness or stupidity. Your reckless driving is unacceptable from a public point of view.

“Freethinking” Republicans are not the only ones branded with public shaming and punishment for their wrongheaded views. Typhoid Mary thought she wasn’t hurting anyone either. But she was an asymptomatic carrier who regularly made others sick. Covid-19 is similar.

There is a long social history justifying public lockdowns and quarantines for health reasons — or simply shaming or stigma for public actions which are deemed unacceptable in polite company. You’re not being unreasonably and unacceptably oppressed for your different views. Get over it.

I watched that Mark Rowe and Rubin video and they simply jerking each other off with thin justifications for being selfish assholes, wallowing in self-pity without any constructive ideas for managing risk. Definitely part of the problem, not the solution.

[Anonymous Bosch]

The difference here is that while risk tolerance may be a personal thing, in this case the impact isn't personal, it's communal.

You're not just taking risks with yourself, you're increasing the risks for everyone around you, and everyone around them. That makes one person's risk another person's business.

Not necessarily, because the devil's in the details. To use one of Sudy's examples, one of his friends was eager to celebrate dining-in at a restaurant once the opportunity presented itself. But it's certainly not completely impossible to dine-in at a restaurant relatively safely, and doing so need not equate to necessarily increasing the risks for everyone around. Depending upon the prevalence of the virus in the restaurant's locale, the size of the restaurant, how suitably it's ventilated, the amount of space kept between customers, and countless other safety practices, it's hardly a foregone conclusion that the mere act of choosing to dine-in at said restaurant necessarily equates to automatically increasing the communal risks of everyone around.

[Anonymous Bosch]

If your risk tolerance creates the breeding ground for disease, it’s time for society to step in.

Why? Because your risk tolerance doesn’t take into account the public or facts or the law. It doesn’t matter if it comes from selfishness or stupidity. Your reckless driving is unacceptable from a public point of view.

OK, but keeping your language specific to the examples Sudy provided -- which is what I was specifically responding and referring to -- what exactly are you implying his friends did that warrants "time for society (or the law) to step in"? If the community in which Sudy resides legitimately chose to permit dine-in restaurant meals, and his friend's assessment of the risks involved prompted them to do so, how does that equate to said friend's risk tolerance creating "the breeding ground for disease" and "time for society to step in"?

[Sudy]

The point being, risk is deeply personal and we all have a differing tolerance for risk. And risk equilibrium is defined by how one adjusts their behaviour to adapt to their circumstances. So if living like a hermit suits you but not your friends, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily equate to them being thoughtlessly selfish and reckless assholes, even if you'd never dream of conducting yourself in a similar way as them. It's simply unreasonable and unrealistic to expect others to conduct themselves identically to whatever particular risk tolerance you happen to have developed over a lifetime of personal experiences.

I don't think they're selfish assholes. I think they have a poor perspective of the scope of this thing. I respect their right to risk their own health, to an extent. But I don't accept that they might make me sick, or my wife sick, or my parents sick, or an immunocompromised person sick, or any random person sick because they can't temporarily control their urge to participate in specific forms of non-essential activities. Am I afraid to die? Sure. Do I want to die? No... though I think I'm more at peace with it than some. But I'm not hiding away out of selfishness. I'm doing it because a dangerous disease is ravaging our entire population and I want to minimize its propagation. I don't think that makes me some kind of saint... as I said, it's easier for me than some due to my circumstances and inclinations. Rather, it's the bare minimum. And the responsible thing to do.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I don't think they're selfish assholes. I think they have a poor perspective of the scope of this thing.

Perhaps they do. And perhaps they assessed the risks of their behaviour, balanced them against the avoidance costs, and simply reached a different conclusion than you. But the behaviour you described doesn't necessarily strike me as the sort of egregious conduct worthy of entirely annihilating relationships with said friends over. So, assuming you wish to preserve your relationships with them, and they're otherwise coherent and responsible adults, it seems only reasonable to grant them the benefit of the doubt.

[Zarathud]

You can be friends with assholes, but in the back of your mind you need to remember they’re assholes.

In today’s situation, I usually don’t see in person those who take risks. I am going to be less social with those who need to be out.

It’s not just friends. My mother is literally willing to die for Christmas, she loves it that much. We had Christmas in person asking her to sit on one side of the living room, and between meals. She went home with her share of dinner in Tupperware. It went ok but wasn’t ideal. I always wore my mask around my brother because he’s an asshole AND has terrible judgment as a pothead.

[Anonymous Bosch]

You can be friends with assholes, but in the back of your mind you need to remember they’re assholes.

In today’s situation, I usually don’t see in person those who take risks. I am going to be less social with those who need to be out.

You seem to be relying upon the depersonalization of abstraction; keeping your language specific to the examples Sudy provided -- which is what I was specifically responding and referring to -- what exactly are you implying his friends did that makes them assholes and warrants "time for society (or the law) to step in"? Sudy himself said he did not think they're selfish assholes, so what exactly makes you so certain they are?