[Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

[Isgrimnur]

Too bad the flu is not a solvable problem.

[Max Peck]

A while back, I read a CBC article on a company in Saskatoon that was manufacturing made-in-Canada PPE, so I finally got around to tracking down their website. Their products include a "C95" (N95-equivalent) mask, an N95-level reusable silicone mask with replaceable filters, and ASTM level 1/2/3 disposable procedural masks.

Benchmark PPE

[Paingod]

Absolutely astounding to see this.

Maybe, just maybe, if we can keep masks and social distancing a "thing" we can whittle down the 30,000+ deaths the regular Flu claims each year, too.

[Lorini]

Absolutely astounding to see this.

Maybe, just maybe, if we can keep masks and social distancing a "thing" we can whittle down the 30,000+ deaths the regular Flu claims each year, too.

There's billions of dollars invested in social closeness, sporting events, movie theatres, theme parks, cruise lines, work spaces, so the first thing that will happen if/when we reach herd immunity is that we'll get back to being able to be next to one another. Masks though could become (and are in some countries) routine. If I leave the house, I'm wearing a mask all the time, no matter what. I hate being sick.

[dbt1949]

I wonder if crime is down due to the lockdown.

[Lorini]

I wonder if crime is down due to the lockdown.

Nope, here in LA aggravated assault and murders are way up.

[Daehawk]

Absolutely astounding to see this.

Millions of US citizens think theres not much flu because the Gov doesn't have time to fake it with all the work in faking the COVID 19 scare taking their time.

[Blackhawk]

I wonder if crime is down due to the lockdown.

It's complicated. Some crimes have changed. Some crimes are down (social crime - the stuff that happens in the streets.) Arrests are down. But other crimes are up - cyber crimes, domestic violence, child abuse. And new crimes have been born (there wasn't much of a counterfeit PPE racket prior to 2020.)

[Z-Corn]

I wonder if crime is down due to the lockdown.

Record number of murders here for 2020.

There is a gang war going on. High unemployment coupled with despondence over a shitshow of a year has led to increased drug abuse, which has led to more drug demand which has led to more drug turf-war murders.

Last summer I took a wrong turn and ended up in my work van going through some one-way streets that funneled me into a dead end at a park. It was late morning and I stumbled into a summit that looked like the scene in The Warriors.

Not gonna lie, I got a bit, "OH SHIT."

I just calmly did a 8-point turn around (I don't have any rear or side windows so it ain't easy), being very careful to not get too close to anybody's vehicle. My incompetence with my vehicle and the fact that it looks obviously either like a tech dude's van or an undercover vehicle served me well.

[LawBeefaroni]

I wonder if crime is down due to the lockdown.

It's complicated. Some crimes have changed. Some crimes are down (social crime - the stuff that happens in the streets.) Arrests are down. But other crimes are up - cyber crimes, domestic violence, child abuse. And new crimes have been born (there wasn't much of a counterfeit PPE racket prior to 2020.)

Car jackings are up here, huge. January was up 300% over January last year. 2020 had the most in over 20 years. Gang wars are on.


COVID? What COVID?

2020 Totals (vs 2019)
Shot & Killed: 719 (+55%)
Shot & Wounded: 3455(+51%)
Total Shot: 4174 (+52%)
Total Homicides: 792 (+53%)

[Kraken]

It's not crime, but driving fatalities in MA were a little higher in 2020 than in 2019 despite far fewer miles driven. That's probably because people could speed on the uncongested roads (speeding citations were also up).

[Paingod]

Car jackings are up here, huge. January was up 300% over January last year. 2020 had the most in over 20 years. Gang wars are on.

I mean ... like ... how the hell do people live there? I'm very isolated and insulated from the world at large, living in 95% white rural Maine. Things up here are almost static. The concept of gang wars is insane. The only gunshots I ever hear are from my neighbor's gun ranges. Car jacking only takes place when you get a flat.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Car jackings are up here, huge. January was up 300% over January last year. 2020 had the most in over 20 years. Gang wars are on.

I mean ... like ... how the hell do people live there? I'm very isolated and insulated from the world at large, living in 95% white rural Maine. Things up here are almost static. The concept of gang wars is insane. The only gunshots I ever hear are from my neighbor's gun ranges. Car jacking only takes place when you get a flat.

I suspect they eke out a Road Warrior-esque existence in an enigmatic boardgaming compound led by Hepagello.

[AWS260]

Car jackings are up here, huge.

My mom is going for her COVID shot at a University of Chicago facility tomorrow, and she's leaving everything but her ID and $20 at home because of all the carjackings.

[ImLawBoy]

Car jackings are up here, huge. January was up 300% over January last year. 2020 had the most in over 20 years. Gang wars are on.

I mean ... like ... how the hell do people live there? I'm very isolated and insulated from the world at large, living in 95% white rural Maine. Things up here are almost static. The concept of gang wars is insane. The only gunshots I ever hear are from my neighbor's gun ranges. Car jacking only takes place when you get a flat.

I suspect they eke out a Road Warrior-esque existence in an enigmatic boardgaming compound led by Hepagello.

Yes, but I'm starting to suspect it mostly an excuse for hepcat to break out his bondage gear.

The reality is that gang wars tend to be relatively restricted to gang neighborhoods. When I moved to my current neighborhood about 15 years ago we had some activity, but it's mostly gentrified and gone away. I have little reason to go through the gang neighborhoods. (Note that's not to say that gang wars and their associated violence aren't a problem - they absolutely are. I'm just addressing the "how do you live there?" question.) The carjackings are more concerning because they do occur just about anywhere, but it's still a miniscule number of people relative to the entire population who are impacted. I could let the fear rule my life, just like you could let the fear of lyme disease from a tick rule your life, but I choose not to.

And there are benefits to big city living. I'm betting our tacos and pizzas are waaaay better (and much more plentiful) than what you get in rural Maine. We have lots of attractions - cultural, sports, etc. (Ignore the pandemic for a moment.) I've got 5-10 places brewing beer within a mile or so of my house. There are more jobs here. My kids are exposed to more than just 95% white people. I almost never see a Trump sign.

I'm not trying to convince you that you should move here (although you're welcome to!), but if you really want to know how we can live here, those are some of the reasons. Everywhere has negative things you can focus on, and some of the bad things here are undoubtedly really, really bad. There are a lot of good things too, though.

[Paingod]

And there are benefits to big city living. I'm betting our tacos and pizzas are waaaay better (and much more plentiful) than what you get in rural Maine. We have lots of attractions - cultural, sports, etc. (Ignore the pandemic for a moment.) I've got 5-10 places brewing beer within a mile or so of my house. There are more jobs here. My kids are exposed to more than just 95% white people. I almost never see a Trump sign.

Maine's got a nice "city" in Portland. Lots of good food options there, some culture (music, museums, sports, etc), and a far more diverse array of humans than I see out in the woods (lots of immigrants end up here). I lived there for years before moving and never felt unsafe, even walking the "bad" parts of town at 1:00am on my way home from a friend's house. They had "gangs" but it was just sad wanna-be's who defaced property with tags and did little else.

Good pizza is ... hard to find ... without going down to Portland. Used to be a pretty good Chinese buffet (good for approximately the first 30 minutes after they opened, then things had clearly sat out too long) near by before COVID killed it.

What I really miss are job opportunities. I think I can count on one hand the companies I might work for that are "local" (under 30 min. drive). I've got to go 45+ minutes in any direction to find a better job. We moved out to the woods because it was where 9 acres of land and a 1,650sq ft. home was within our budget.

For a long time I've felt like Maine is just too boring, even for criminal elements.

[ImLawBoy]

And there are benefits to big city living. I'm betting our tacos and pizzas are waaaay better (and much more plentiful) than what you get in rural Maine. We have lots of attractions - cultural, sports, etc. (Ignore the pandemic for a moment.) I've got 5-10 places brewing beer within a mile or so of my house. There are more jobs here. My kids are exposed to more than just 95% white people. I almost never see a Trump sign.

Maine's got a nice "city" in Portland. Lots of good food options there, some culture (music, museums, sports, etc), and a far more diverse array of humans than I see out in the woods (lots of immigrants end up here). I lived there for years before moving and never felt unsafe, even walking the "bad" parts of town at 1:00am on my way home from a friend's house. They had "gangs" but it was just sad wanna-be's who defaced property with tags and did little else.

Keep in mind that Portland's population is ~66K, and its demographic breakdown is 85% white, 7.1% Black, 3.5% Asian, and 3% Hispanic/Latino (falls into other races). Chicago's population is ~2.6M, with demographics of 45% white, 33% Black, 5.5% Asian, and 29% Hispanic/Latino. (Numbers are 2010 Census taken off of Wikipedia.) It's not really fair to compare the food, culture, diversity, or safety of the cities, as they're playing in different leagues.

[Paingod]

Hey, man. I put quotes around "city" for a reason!

[Lorini]

In the Before Times, LA had 40,000 restaurants, most of which I've never been to. They have a world class Philharmonic orchestra, two great theatre venues, two NFL teams, one MLB team (with another less than an hour away), and two NBA teams. They have three world class universities, UCLA, USC, and Caltech on the border.

For me personally, LA has a ton of people to play boardgames with(when the After Times come) and since I'm picky about who I play with, that's why I stay here.

It also has some of the worst traffic and parking in the country, which is why I'm glad I can travel during off times (in the After times).

[Z-Corn]

I used to work with A Girl Of The Country and she could never understand why we lived in The City.

She was afraid with all the people there in The City that there were a lot of murderers.

I pointed out that people got murdered in The Country too but at least in The City there would be people to hear you scream.


This didn't stop her from being a racist.

[Zarathud]

Detroit, St. Louis, Memphis, Baltimore, Little Rock, Cleveland, Stockton, Milwaukee, Albuquerque and San Bernardino have higher per capita violent crime than Chicago. We just have a lot of people.

Chicago is a city of many neighborhoods. Where you live will dictate the crimes you may face. Live near the bars or college and you have drunk people. Live in a commercial district and it’s theft. Some areas have homeless. On gang borders it’s much cheaper and in certain areas life is cheap too. We don’t pretend these things don’t happen.

There have been gang disputes and shootings 2-4 blocks away. Apparently the drug trade is extremely heavy as everyone is trying to cope with the pandemic. Gangs are more home bound, which means the deals are on the street not in private. That means more conflict over busy street territory. Socially distant gangs get out their guns to settle their beefs. Sad but logical.

[noxiousdog]

Your experience was not the norm for the 60s/70s/80s. My working neighborhood was full of moms and kids roaming the neighborhood under their supervision. Classic TV shows were more than just sexist mythology.

The stats bear me out, and not just in the US:

BBC Raising Children

I’m not saying it’s ideal or right. But the neighborhood gossip about kids did exist.

Stating the reality of the time isn't sexist. I grew up in liberated hippie land and it was still the norm for moms to be at home.

Having a parent at home, be it mom or dad, makes a difference. The reality is that back in the day it was moms.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren ... e-mothers/

It was barely different in 80s than it is today.

[Sudy]

NEW YORK - U.S. government researchers found that two masks are better than one in slowing coronavirus spread, but health officials stopped short of recommending that everyone double up.

Well... sure. Encasing your head in cement also does a better job of limiting transmission than wearing a single mask.

My masked, fat self was literally close to collapsing after carrying 40 pounds of groceries home the other day. I'm not complaining, but it seems like maybe we should be improving masks before recommending people throw two on. (Which no one is doing at this point, but that doesn't mean news like this won't push people to do so, and look down on those who don't.)

Ontario's managed to drop our daily cases from a peak around 4,000 last month to only 1,000, so guess what, we're opening things back up! (Albeit gradually in our highest transmission areas.) Yeah, I get it, the economy needs to not die. But 1,000 a day is still much higher than last spring when everyone was losing their minds. I guess we've finally found the number of acceptable deaths--it seems to be around 40 a day. Meanwhile, these extra-contagious variants are on the doorstep....

[Paingod]

Ontario's managed to drop our daily cases from a peak around 4,000 last month to only 1,000, so guess what, we're opening things back up!

Every time I read something like that, I feel like people have simply decided to try and keep "just enough" COVID around so it persists in being a problem but "not enough" that it's completely overwhelming the hospitals.

[Sudy]

I realize it's naive to think we can suppress the economy to the point there are zero cases... people will just stop obeying. And I know they're employing geniuses to do the statistical modeling. But in contrast to where our province has been, easing things at 1,000/40 cases/deaths a day sure seems unwise. Isn't the whiplash of having to go back into lockdown worse? Of course, everything is done in increments, and the hotspot urban centers will be the last to open. But I really don't see the wisdom in, say, allowing restaurants to re-open their dining rooms, even with distancing precautions. (Other than, yeah, the people who work in this industry deserve to make money, if they haven't been crushed already.) Isn't that giving people a unnecessary reason to leave their homes? Outside of mental health and the economy. But I'd still rather be depressed and poor than dead.

Yes, this a not particularly educated hot take.

[AWS260]

Can’t Find an N95 Mask? This Company Has 30 Million That It Can’t Sell.

These businesses must overcome the ingrained purchasing habits of hospital systems, medical supply distributors and state governments. Many buyers are loath to try the new crop of American-made masks, which are often a bit more expensive than those produced in China. Another obstacle comes from companies like Facebook and Google, which banned the sale and advertising of N95 masks in an effort to thwart profiteers from diverting vital medical gear needed by frontline medical workers.

The good news is that if you're looking for an N95, several of the companies in the article are providing direct sales from their websites.

[noxiousdog]

I really like these KN95s

[ImLawBoy]

My masked, fat self was literally close to collapsing after carrying 40 pounds of groceries home the other day. I'm not complaining, but it seems like maybe we should be improving masks before recommending people throw two on. (Which no one is doing at this point, but that doesn't mean news like this won't push people to do so, and look down on those who don't.)

FWIW, I've been double masking for a few weeks now, and my only issue is that the extra loops around my ears leave less room for my glasses, so they fall off more. I've had no issues with breathing at all, and I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't any less comfortable than wearing a single mask. My wife took my daughter (6 years old) to a doctor appointment yesterday, and they also both double-masked without issue. We use a paper mask underneath and a cloth mask on top.

[Jeff V]

My daughter has problems with a single mask...her ears are too floppy and they just don't do a good job keeping the loops from slipping right off. FWIW, the double-mask advice is for those who have problems getting a single one to fit properly.

We are venturing out into the disease-filled swamps this weekend, spending two nights at a water park resort. They have a minimal, entirely uninteresting room service menu. Breakfast appears to be buffet only, which is a hard no. I really have no idea what my wife's plan is for food for two days.

[Kraken]

My masked, fat self was literally close to collapsing after carrying 40 pounds of groceries home the other day. I'm not complaining, but it seems like maybe we should be improving masks before recommending people throw two on. (Which no one is doing at this point, but that doesn't mean news like this won't push people to do so, and look down on those who don't.)

FWIW, I've been double masking for a few weeks now, and my only issue is that the extra loops around my ears leave less room for my glasses, so they fall off more. I've had no issues with breathing at all, and I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't any less comfortable than wearing a single mask. My wife took my daughter (6 years old) to a doctor appointment yesterday, and they also both double-masked without issue. We use a paper mask underneath and a cloth mask on top.

I double-mask when I expect to be indoors among strangers for any length of time -- which mostly means at the grocer. On the plus side, my glasses fog up less due to having a better seal. On the downside, I have to speak louder to be heard. That's a minor inconvenience since I only have to talk at the deli and fish counters, and sometimes at the checkout. For routine use when I'm not going shopping, I wear a cloth mask with a paper filter insert, so I've still got three layers.

I can't say I've noticed anyone around me double-masking, but I don't really inspect other people.

[Anonymous Bosch]

My masked, fat self was literally close to collapsing after carrying 40 pounds of groceries home the other day. I'm not complaining, but it seems like maybe we should be improving masks before recommending people throw two on. (Which no one is doing at this point, but that doesn't mean news like this won't push people to do so, and look down on those who don't.)

FWIW, I've been double masking for a few weeks now, and my only issue is that the extra loops around my ears leave less room for my glasses, so they fall off more. I've had no issues with breathing at all, and I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't any less comfortable than wearing a single mask. My wife took my daughter (6 years old) to a doctor appointment yesterday, and they also both double-masked without issue. We use a paper mask underneath and a cloth mask on top.

Realistically though, and I'm quite certain Smoove would back me up on this, the main problem with the mask(s) most people are wearing -- in terms of providing much, if any, protection for the wearer -- boils down to how tightly they fit. If most of the air you breathe in comes from around the edges of the mask instead of being filtered through it, the protection it provides the wearer is negligible even while wearing more than one (though they would at least limit one's emission of respiratory droplets). That's the primary reason why N95 masks tend to provide superior protection for the wearer: because they usually fit a WHOLE lot tighter, making breathing more difficult but more likely to be properly filtered through the mask itself.

Metaphorically, it's not much different to the sliding scale between security and convenience in terms of password hygiene:



So wearing a comfortable mask or masks that do not significantly impair breathing is akin to using something like password123 for all of your digital security needs. More convenient, but a whole lot less secure.

[Max Peck]

NEW YORK - U.S. government researchers found that two masks are better than one in slowing coronavirus spread, but health officials stopped short of recommending that everyone double up.

Well... sure. Encasing your head in cement also does a better job of limiting transmission than wearing a single mask.

My masked, fat self was literally close to collapsing after carrying 40 pounds of groceries home the other day. I'm not complaining, but it seems like maybe we should be improving masks before recommending people throw two on. (Which no one is doing at this point, but that doesn't mean news like this won't push people to do so, and look down on those who don't.)

It's all well and good to say that we should be improving masks, but that actually requires someone to design and market better masks. In the mean time, public health guidance needs to be in terms of options that are actually available. At any rate, for a few months now I've been wearing a cloth mask over a disposable procedural mask when I need to go out. It doesn't make it perceptibly more difficult to breathe, but it does seem to provide a better seal than just wearing one or the other by itself.

In terms of "improved" masks, I recently purchased a CANHEAL 808 respirator. It's a relatively compact plastic respirator with a soft plastic (silicone?) facepiece that provides an excellent seal around the nose and mouth. It does have an unfiltered exhalation valve, though, however it's sufficiently compact that I can wear a cloth/procedural mask over it to provide as much protection to the world from my respiratory goo as if I was just wearing those masks alone. Triple-masking FTW! The catch for the 808 is that it uses custom replaceable filters that seem to be out of stock. I believe I can jury-rig replacement filters by trimming down standard PM2.5 filters to fit the respirator, but I haven't needed to resort to that just yet.

I've also ordered a batch of Benchmark PPE's C95 N95-level masks and one of their reusable silicone masks with replaceable N95-level filters to try as an alternative to the 808. Since Benchmark manufactures their own filters (CANHEAL sources theirs from China), they should be able to maintain a stock of replacement filters.

[Max Peck]

My daughter has problems with a single mask...her ears are too floppy and they just don't do a good job keeping the loops from slipping right off. FWIW, the double-mask advice is for those who have problems getting a single one to fit properly.

Have you looked at any of the "ear saver" options? Typically, they are some sort of band that hooks onto the ear loops so that the mask doesn't need to rely on the ears to stay in place.

[Anonymous Bosch]

My masked, fat self was literally close to collapsing after carrying 40 pounds of groceries home the other day. I'm not complaining, but it seems like maybe we should be improving masks before recommending people throw two on. (Which no one is doing at this point, but that doesn't mean news like this won't push people to do so, and look down on those who don't.)

FWIW, I've been double masking for a few weeks now, and my only issue is that the extra loops around my ears leave less room for my glasses, so they fall off more. I've had no issues with breathing at all, and I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't any less comfortable than wearing a single mask. My wife took my daughter (6 years old) to a doctor appointment yesterday, and they also both double-masked without issue. We use a paper mask underneath and a cloth mask on top.

Realistically though, and I'm quite certain Smoove would back me up on this, the main problem with the mask(s) most people are wearing -- in terms of providing much, if any, protection for the wearer -- boils down to how tightly they fit. If most of the air you breathe in comes from around the edges of the mask instead of being filtered through it, the protection it provides the wearer is negligible even while wearing more than one (though they would at least limit one's emission of respiratory droplets). That's the primary reason why N95 masks tend to provide superior protection for the wearer: because they usually fit a WHOLE lot tighter, making breathing more difficult but more likely to be properly filtered through the mask itself.

Metaphorically, it's not much different to the sliding scale between security and convenience in terms of password hygiene:



So wearing a comfortable mask or masks that do not significantly impair breathing is akin to using something like password123 for all of your digital security needs. More convenient, but a whole lot less secure.

In related news…

Tight-fitting masks can slash COVID transmission by 95%, CDC says

It's known that face masks help protect against COVID-19 infection, but U.S. health officials said Wednesday that the tighter the mask, the better.

In lab experiments, wearing cloth or medical masks close to the face cut COVID transmission by 95%, according to a new report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"These laboratory-based experiments highlight the importance of good fit to maximize overall mask performance," wrote the researchers, led by Dr. John Brooks, of the CDC's COVID-19 Emergency Response Team.

"There are multiple simple ways to achieve better fit of masks to more effectively slow the spread of COVID-19," the researchers noted.

Using dummies, the CDC team tested two methods to prevent air leakage from the mask's edges: double masking (wearing a cloth mask over a medical mask) and knotting and tucking masks. For this, they knotted the ear loops of a medical mask at the mask edges and tucked in and flattened any extra material close to the face.

When people wear tight-fitting masks, infection could be slashed, experiments showed.

"I would rather people focus on finding one quality mask that meets the mark, versus trying to layer masks and create discomfort, difficulty breathing … or frustration that might lead to no mask at all," Saskia Popescu, an infectious disease epidemiologist at George Mason University in Virginia, told the Washington Post.

David Rothamer, an engineering professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, has experimented with masks on mannequins in classrooms while studying the best ways to prevent the spread of the virus in college classes. He told the Post that he is not a proponent of double masking because it consumes more masks and can lead to more air leakage.

"The only reason to [wear two masks] is if you can get better fit," he said.

Two other ways to improve fit, the CDC researchers said, include use of a mask fitter (a fitted plastic frame for a mask) or wearing a nylon covering over your mask.

Unlike N95 respirator masks, cloth masks and surgical or medical masks fit loosely, allowing respiratory droplets to escape, the researchers explained. They are not intended to block airborne particles.

By controlling the spread of aerosol drops, the mask experiments showed that an infected person is less likely to transmit COVID, while a non-infected person is less likely to become infected.

[Lorini]

If you buy a mask from mlb.com they come with over the head loops, which confused the hell out of us when we got some.

[Blackhawk]

My KN95s (the ones Smoove recommended) don't fit 100% perfectly, mostly because I haven't shaved my hoolihee. What I have noticed, though, is that while exhaling pushes some of the air out of the sides where it hits my beard (my chin is shaved), when I inhaled it's pulling the mask in close and drawing the air in through the material. Given that my entire weekly public exposure is probably two and a half hours in huge buildings, I'm ok with it. My son, on the other hand, goes to an in-person school where the standard is that masks aren't required if you're at your desk (he has agreed to wear his all the time- the same KN95 I have) , while Michelle works in a hospital. My big exposure vectors aren't through my masked time in public.

[hitbyambulance]

Tight-fitting masks can slash COVID transmission by 95%, CDC says

Using dummies, the CDC team tested two methods to prevent air leakage from the mask's edges: double masking (wearing a cloth mask over a medical mask) and knotting and tucking masks. For this, they knotted the ear loops of a medical mask at the mask edges and tucked in and flattened any extra material close to the face.

maybe this goes in the other thread, but why do they always mention "cloth over medical"? why not two cloth ones?

[Daehawk]

Just dont breath while out. Its hard enough to breath through a double cloth mask. having to add more and more is making ti hard to get into the store before passing out.

[Blackhawk]

Tight-fitting masks can slash COVID transmission by 95%, CDC says

Using dummies, the CDC team tested two methods to prevent air leakage from the mask's edges: double masking (wearing a cloth mask over a medical mask) and knotting and tucking masks. For this, they knotted the ear loops of a medical mask at the mask edges and tucked in and flattened any extra material close to the face.

maybe this goes in the other thread, but why do they always mention "cloth over medical"? why not two cloth ones?

It's my understanding that the medical mask does a better job of filtering than multiple cloth masks, but fit too loosely for the type of filtering we want them to do. It's better to think of it as wearing a medical mask with a cloth mask tightener that just happens to add a bit more protection.

[hitbyambulance]

Tight-fitting masks can slash COVID transmission by 95%, CDC says

Using dummies, the CDC team tested two methods to prevent air leakage from the mask's edges: double masking (wearing a cloth mask over a medical mask) and knotting and tucking masks. For this, they knotted the ear loops of a medical mask at the mask edges and tucked in and flattened any extra material close to the face.

maybe this goes in the other thread, but why do they always mention "cloth over medical"? why not two cloth ones?

It's my understanding that the medical mask does a better job of filtering than multiple cloth masks, but fit too loosely for the type of filtering we want them to do. It's better to think of it as wearing a medical mask with a cloth mask tightener that just happens to add a bit more protection.

from the other thread:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... -variants/

CDC conducted experiments last month to test the effectiveness of mask combinations at reducing the amount of particles released during a cough. A three-ply surgical mask blocked 42% of particles from a simulated cough, and a three-ply cloth mask blocked 44%. But a cloth mask covering a medical mask blocked 92% of the particles, the report said.

three-ply cloth = 44%
disposable surgical = 42%
three-ply cloth + disposable surgical = 92%
three-ply cloth + three-ply cloth = ?

really would like to know. if using multiple reusable ones is roughly comparable to using a reusable + disposable (and i don't see why it wouldn't be), that's an infinitely preferable option for me. (and assume the 'inside' cloth one is tightly fitting around the sides)

EDIT: found this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/are-two ... ne-2020-10

You can also mimic a so-called "hybrid" mask by combining two layers of 600-thread-count cotton mask paired with another material like silk, chiffon, or flannel — an April study found such masks filtered at least 94% of small particles and at least 96% of larger particles, Business Insider's Aria Bendix and Yuqing Liu previously reported.