Nissan Leaf

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:58 pm

Does anyone own a Nissan Leaf?

Right now they are offering a 3 year lease for $199 which is basically the cost of what I pay for gas each month. I could easily go to work three days on one single charge, and with practically no maintainence cost this seems to be a no brainer for a commuter car. What's even better is that I get free parking across the street and free charging there.

Just curious on what other owners think of the car

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:07 pm

I don't own one, but coincidentally I did a mystery shop yesterday at the local dealership where I had to pretend to be in the market for one. Nissan is really anxious to get the 2012's out the door. In addition to the low monthly fee, if you lease one they will give you a $10k rebate that counts as the down payment, so you can get the deal with no $ out of pocket.

I assume that's OAC, but who knows?

mori · Post by **mori** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:17 pm

Don't you still have to buy a charging station for home to make the car convenient for a couple grand?

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:27 pm

mori wrote:Don't you still have to buy a charging station for home to make the car convenient for a couple grand?

Only if you want the faster charge. You can charge on the 110v which will take about 10-12 hours. My garage across the street from work has the faster one and it's currently free.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:59 am

Thats sounds like a pretty good deal to get into an electric. The other plus to this is if this lease plan goes well, in three years or so there should be quite a few out of lease used Leafs available to purchase at a much more reasonable price.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:34 am

I'm actually test driving one tonight. $200 month is about what I'm spending on gas now. So $40-50 of electricity is a pretty good deal. Plus I work for an energy company and they pay for the install of a charger in my home.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:50 am

That would have worked really well when we didn't have power for 14 days.

Just looking at how that works stresses me out. I'd be staring at the battery meter all the time. That and it can't even handle my commute.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:55 am

naednek wrote:Does anyone own a Nissan Leaf?

Right now they are offering a 3 year lease for $199 which is basically the cost of what I pay for gas each month. I could easily go to work three days on one single charge, and with practically no maintainence cost this seems to be a no brainer for a commuter car. What's even better is that I get free parking across the street and free charging there.

Just curious on what other owners think of the car

You have something else for trips?

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:21 am

coopasonic wrote:
naednek wrote:Does anyone own a Nissan Leaf?

Right now they are offering a 3 year lease for $199 which is basically the cost of what I pay for gas each month. I could easily go to work three days on one single charge, and with practically no maintainence cost this seems to be a no brainer for a commuter car. What's even better is that I get free parking across the street and free charging there.

Just curious on what other owners think of the car
You have something else for trips?

yep a soon to be Kia Sorrento

That's still in the works so for now my mazda 6

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:43 am

Just out of curiosity I can see how the AC would work but how do they heat it? Usually that's part of the cooling system of the engine.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:48 am

Google is your friend. Honestly I can't see how these things are worth it unless you live in a warm area and drive 20 miles round trip to work. And if you are only driving that much you're not using that much gas anyway.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/105 ... passengers" target="_blank

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:48 am

Daehawk wrote:Just out of curiosity I can see how the AC would work but how do they heat it? Usually that's part of the cooling system of the engine.

Electric heater.

Badcompany · Post by **Badcompany** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:16 pm

Fyi I work at Nissan dealer and have sold quite a few Leafs. If I catch any of wasting my time "mystery" shoping me I will hunt you down

As far as running the AC goes in hot sea level area you should get about 80-90 miles round trip with the ac on. The heater is a much bigger pull on the battery then the AC, also stage 3 trickle charge AKA pluging it into your wall is more like 25 hours for an 80% charge.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:24 pm

Octavious wrote:Google is your friend. Honestly I can't see how these things are worth it unless you live in a warm area and drive 20 miles round trip to work. And if you are only driving that much you're not using that much gas anyway.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/105 ... passengers" target="_blank

I see this as weekday commute/around town car for me. We'll have the other car for longer trips if need be. It does not hurt that my company has free chargers at the office (on top of the free home charger).

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:32 pm

Badcompany wrote:Fyi I work at Nissan dealer and have sold quite a few Leafs. If I catch any of wasting my time "mystery" shoping me I will hunt you down As far as running the AC goes in hot sea level area you should get about 80-90 miles round trip with the ac on. The heater is a much bigger pull on the battery then the AC, also stage 3 trickle charge AKA pluging it into your wall is more like 25 hours for an 80% charge.

Then why is nissan stating 12-14 hours on their website?

Badcompany · Post by **Badcompany** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:05 pm

First thing I learned in sales = under promise over deliver = happy customers. The tier 2 charger installed in your house takes 7 hours to 80% charge. Leaf 2 upgrade will cut charge time 30% but its not out yet.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:07 pm

Badcompany wrote:First thing I learned in sales = under promise over deliver = happy customers. The tier 2 charger installed in your house takes 7 hours to 80% charge. Leaf 2 upgrade will cut charge time 30% but its not out yet.

And that is if you drain it. For me, I calculate that I'll be down to about 40% charge round trip. If I can get some charger time in at the office it might be 60% so even at Level 3 I'm looking at overnight. Once I have the L2 charger installed it'd be around 2 - 4 hours on average. That isn't too bad.

Badcompany · Post by **Badcompany** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 pm

I looked it up, for the 13 model its 5 miles per hour on 3 charging.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:23 pm

Man, I get nervous watching the battery % drop during the day on my cell phone. I can't imagine the type of ulcer I'd get watching the % drop on my car. Using 60% of my available driving distance per day?

Of course, I drive 80-100 miles on my daily commute (anyone hiring in southern NH?), so I'm not a candidate for one of these anyway.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:27 pm

Chaz wrote:Man, I get nervous watching the battery % drop during the day on my cell phone. I can't imagine the type of ulcer I'd get watching the % drop on my car. Using 60% of my available driving distance per day?

Of course, I drive 80-100 miles on my daily commute (anyone hiring in southern NH?), so I'm not a candidate for one of these anyway.

Exactly. I would get into an accident staring at the battery meter.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:33 am

So quick update...

I waited for the 2013 models to role out and see what the new models offer. They announced in late January that the new models would be in dealerships in Feb and they announced a new trim S. Basically their lower end model. No navigation, no rear camera and their slower charging cable (that one bites big time)

I was hoping they would have kept the the $199 lease on the SV (last years lowend, this year mid level) but as expected, they didn't.

After bugging the local dealership for the last two weeks on when they are coming in stock, I decided to branch out since the guy I kept talking to didn't have any answers. Today I called around and sure enough they had 3 in stock.

After work I picked up the wife and headed to the dealership. By the time I got there they sold 1 S model and had 1 S model and 1 SV model left in stock. We loved the color of the SL. The dealer said he could run the numbers between the two (we leased by the way) and we can decide. We took the SV for a test drive and man it was nice. All three models drive the same, it's the packages that differentiate each other. This SL had the Bose speakers, Nav System, All around cameras (basically a birds eye view of your car when in reverse, and some other features that I forget) we take it back and talk to the salesguy and find out it's going to cost nearly $100 more than the S. The idea was to trade what I pay for gas and lease a new car for the same price I pay in gas, so that didn't make any sense just to have extra bells and whistles.

We ended up getting the S model and with the extra fees and taxes it was more than I thought we'd pay, but it still made sense for us. I now wished I didn't finance the tax and registration. I forgot about that, and could have my payment a little cheaper.

The only thing that bugs me is that my car can plug into a 110 outlet or a 220(or is it 240) but the cable only charges at the 110 speed. Meaning I can't charge the car in 4 hours even though the car has the capability.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:40 am

That sounds like a ripoff..company BS. A cable is a cable. And if there IS a difference then there should be no cost difference. One fast cable for everything. Why gimp their cars like that?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:10 am

It isn't a ripoff so much as the quick charger is an option on the base model. The SV and SL come with them standard. It was one of the ways they drastically knocked down the price on the base (S) model.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:44 am

malchior wrote:It isn't a ripoff so much as the quick charger is an option on the base model. The SV and SL come with them standard. It was one of the ways they drastically knocked down the price on the base (S) model.

yep, that's true. It just rubs me the wrong way when the car is capable to charge at faster rates but they won't include the tool that gives it to you. It's like buying a high end computer with a great video card but the video card is locked down to give you half the graphic capability.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:49 am

naednek wrote:
malchior wrote:It isn't a ripoff so much as the quick charger is an option on the base model. The SV and SL come with them standard. It was one of the ways they drastically knocked down the price on the base (S) model.

yep, that's true. It just rubs me the wrong way when the car is capable to charge at faster rates but they won't include the tool that gives it to you. It's like buying a high end computer with a great video card but the video card is locked down to give you half the graphic capability.

But it is not actually capable. A $1300 option is literally not installed in the car.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:51 am

naednek wrote:
malchior wrote:It isn't a ripoff so much as the quick charger is an option on the base model. The SV and SL come with them standard. It was one of the ways they drastically knocked down the price on the base (S) model.

yep, that's true. It just rubs me the wrong way when the car is capable to charge at faster rates but they won't include the tool that gives it to you. It's like buying a high end computer with a great video card but the video card is locked down to give you half the graphic capability.

the plug connector on the car is. It does both the 120 and 220. The 240 gives you the 4 hours.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:58 am

Yea, I think this was NIssan's way of getting the car MSRP under 30000. I don't necessarily think it was a good idea especially since adding the quick charger option basically ends up putting you pretty much in the SV range. So basically a marketing gimmick. At least, from my experience dealing with them they went out of the way to explain that to me. I don't know if your dealer did so as well but I see it as a pretty straight forward choice.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:19 am

naednek wrote:
malchior wrote:It isn't a ripoff so much as the quick charger is an option on the base model. The SV and SL come with them standard. It was one of the ways they drastically knocked down the price on the base (S) model.

yep, that's true. It just rubs me the wrong way when the car is capable to charge at faster rates but they won't include the tool that gives it to you. It's like buying a high end computer with a great video card but the video card is locked down to give you half the graphic capability.

Two years after buying it, my wife just paid Honda $250 to "install" keyless entry in her Fit (it was an expensive option when we bought the base-model car, but they made it standard the next year). Turns out that all Fits shipped with the electronics installed -- all the dealer had to do was obtain and program two remotes.

Seemed like a silly place to cut corners to save a few bucks.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:46 am

turns out the garage that i can park and charge for free has the 240 cable so I'm good to go. I don't plan on charging much at home.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:36 am

naednek wrote:turns out the garage that i can park and charge for free has the 240 cable so I'm good to go. I don't plan on charging much at home.

But it will still charge at the 110 rate. Yeah, it can take the plug, but as mentioned, there is no Quick Charger on board so your stuck with the slow charge time. They had to make it accept both types of plugs because all of the public stations are 240.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:33 pm

stessier wrote:
naednek wrote:turns out the garage that i can park and charge for free has the 240 cable so I'm good to go. I don't plan on charging much at home.
But it will still charge at the 110 rate. Yeah, it can take the plug, but as mentioned, there is no Quick Charger on board so your stuck with the slow charge time. They had to make it accept both types of plugs because all of the public stations are 240.

incorrect. The port I have does the 110 and 240. There's another port that I don't have that uses the Quick Charge "station" which is the 480.

The cable that came with my car is limiting me to 110. But if I see a station that has the 240 cable I'm good to go.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:30 pm

Hackers

Two security researchers have demonstrated security vulnerabilities in the Nissan Leaf electric car by using mobile management APIs supplied by the car manufacturer.

The unsecured APIs allow anyone who knows the VIN number of a car to access non-critical features such as climate control and battery charge management from anywhere across the Internet. Additionally, someone exploiting the unauthenticated APIs can see the car's estimated driving range.
...
In a blog and embedded video, the security researchers, Scott Helme and Troy Hunt, described the discovery by a third unnamed person who'd been attending a security workshop with them. Hunt, who is from Australia, then demonstrated how he was able to access Helme's NIssan Leaf -- even though he was 10,000 miles away in England.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:50 pm

not due to the above article, but I'm turning in my leaf this Saturday.

My lease is up and I have no intention to buy or lease another. Mainly because the perks of having it have drained (pun intended) No more free parking, but I do have free charging, but it's nearly impossible to get a spot to charge in the garage I park in.

I now drive a vanpool, and they pay me $70 a month to drive. Gas is paid for as well as maintainence. I'm the secondary driver. The main person doesn't want to dry so she forfeits the $70. She's hoping to get a job locally and if that happens I'll get to have the van stored at my house, and I can use that as a second car when needed (which is rare) We are allowed to drive 300 miles on top of our monthly commute miles.

In the meantime I have my mom's old car until the van is available.

Cortilian · Post by **Cortilian** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:55 pm

naednek wrote:not due to the above article, but I'm turning in my leaf this Saturday.

My lease is up and I have no intention to buy or lease another. Mainly because the perks of having it have drained (pun intended) No more free parking, but I do have free charging, but it's nearly impossible to get a spot to charge in the garage I park in.

I now drive a vanpool, and they pay me $70 a month to drive. Gas is paid for as well as maintainence. I'm the secondary driver. The main person doesn't want to dry so she forfeits the $70. She's hoping to get a job locally and if that happens I'll get to have the van stored at my house, and I can use that as a second car when needed (which is rare) We are allowed to drive 300 miles on top of our monthly commute miles.

In the meantime I have my mom's old car until the van is available.

That sounds pretty cool. How much earlier do you have to leave in order to pickup the poolies (poolers?) and get to work?

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:13 pm

About 10 minutes. 3 of us work in the same building, 2 in another, and the other two don't always ride. But still pay, and use it when needed.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:05 pm

Well, we bought a Leaf this weekend. The current models have a 25% larger battery than the original, which still ain't good enough for road tripping but eases the around town stress. EPA mileage is 107. In our initial driving, that seems about right for mixed use. Highway will be less, city more.

I had been wanting to get into an EV for some time now, and the combo of Trump prepping to gut all things environmental and Nissan/Colorado tossing out large incentives got me to bite. Wound up getting the middle SV trim for $7.5k off sticker, minus $12.5k tax incentives, a decent price on my trade, with 0% 72-month financing on what's left (which is basically just floating the tax rebates and sales tax till 2018).

It's a relatively small hatchback, but it drives nicely and has great instant torque. The infotainment system isn't a Tesla but it doesn't suck, either. I like being able to fire up HVAC from my phone on hot/cold days.

We installed a 240V EVSE in our garage over the summer for our other car which is a plug-in hybrid. Cost is nowhere near the $1k quoted above. With tax incentives I think we paid $450, and it charges much more efficiently than 110V, so some of that will come back to us over time.

I tested quick charging at a CHADEMO station last night. Went from 17%/20 miles to 83%/90 miles in about 28 minutes at 395V/95A. It's not Tesla Supercharger fast, but it's fine for a quickish refill.

On the current model, charging times are:
L1 (110V/12A): 21 hours
L2 (240V/28A): 6 hours
LE (395V/95A): 30 min to 80%

Anyway, I wouldn't advocate a Leaf or other 100-mi EV as an only car, but if you have something for longer trips, it's a great, fun little vehicle. Reminds me of the joy I had when I first got my Prius back in 2006: fun tech that virtually no one was yet enjoying.

Except this one gets up and goes much more quickly than a Prius.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:09 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Well, we bought a Leaf this weekend. The current models have a 25% larger battery than the original, which still ain't good enough for road tripping but eases the around town stress. EPA mileage is 107. In our initial driving, that seems about right for mixed use. Highway will be less, city more.

I had been wanting to get into an EV for some time now, and the combo of Trump prepping to gut all things environmental and Nissan/Colorado tossing out large incentives got me to bite. Wound up getting the middle SV trim for $7.5k off sticker, minus $12.5k tax incentives, a decent price on my trade, with 0% 72-month financing on what's left (which is basically just floating the tax rebates and sales tax till 2018).

It's a relatively small hatchback, but it drives nicely and has great instant torque. The infotainment system isn't a Tesla but it doesn't suck, either. I like being able to fire up HVAC from my phone on hot/cold days.

We installed a 240V EVSE in our garage over the summer for our other car which is a plug-in hybrid. Cost is nowhere near the $1k quoted above. With tax incentives I think we paid $450, and it charges much more efficiently than 110V, so some of that will come back to us over time.

I tested quick charging at a CHADEMO station last night. Went from 17%/20 miles to 83%/90 miles in about 28 minutes at 395V/95A. It's not Tesla Supercharger fast, but it's fine for a quickish refill.

On the current model, charging times are:
L1 (110V/12A): 21 hours
L2 (240V/28A): 6 hours
LE (395V/95A): 30 min to 80%

Anyway, I wouldn't advocate a Leaf or other 100-mi EV as an only car, but if you have something for longer trips, it's a great, fun little vehicle. Reminds me of the joy I had when I first got my Prius back in 2006: fun tech that virtually no one was yet enjoying.

Except this one gets up and goes much more quickly than a Prius.

Bad choice. It won't work for Jeff.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:27 pm

I did almost back out when I realized it wouldn't fit his preconceived notions of his needs, but wound up powering through.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:28 pm

Did you cancel your Tesla order? I wanted to hear about that one!

Oh, and congrats! I'm jealous.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:29 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Well, we bought a Leaf this weekend. The current models have a 25% larger battery than the original, which still ain't good enough for road tripping but eases the around town stress. EPA mileage is 107. In our initial driving, that seems about right for mixed use. Highway will be less, city more.

You just made me look up the Bolt again. It's still not widely available.