First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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Debris
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First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Debris »

I finally had a chance to watch Blade Runner last night. I know, I know! I've always wanted to see it, but just never seemed to find the opportunity. Probably to no one's surprise I really liked it, although I'm sure if it came out in today's day and age it would really flop since there isn't a big hook or twist that is so prevalent in today's movies. Still, it made me think about it all night and there are a few things that didn't quite make sense to me.

1) When Decker and Gaff where in Leon's apartment, Decker finds what we later discover is a snake scale in the tub, which ultimately leads him to Zora. Why was the snake scale in Leon's tub in the first place? With all the intelligence that went into the movie, this one piece of evidence really stood out as being out of place and seemed nothing more than a device to move the story along.

2) Why did Roy save Decker in the end? I was thinking that maybe at the end of his life, he suddenly realized how precious and fleeting life can be. But would that over-ride his anger at Decker killing Pris?

3) How could anyone sleep in 2019 LA? All those flashing lights...
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by TiLT »

Debris wrote:I finally had a chance to watch Blade Runner last night. I know, I know! I've always wanted to see it, but just never seemed to find the opportunity. Probably to no one's surprise I really liked it, although I'm sure if it came out in today's day and age it would really flop since there isn't a big hook or twist that is so prevalent in today's movies.
Yes there is. Deckard is a replicant, at least if you watch the real version of the movie, the one without the narrator. It's such a twist that many still deny it.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Holman »

Snake in the tub:

Animals have a totemic role in the movie and especially in the book that inspired it. In both, the natural world is completely depleted. In the novel, people buy replicant animals in the hope that others will believe that they are successful enough to afford real animals (which are insanely expensive status symbols). It's a way of clinging to natural life in an artificial world.

This isn't really explored in the movie, but as backstory it explains why you see so many people holding animals in various scenes (Tyrell's owl, the ostrich in the street, etc). It also explains why Deckard treats the snake scale as a fortunate clue: if he can track down the snake-maker, he can find out who bought the snake, leading him to whoever has been with Leon. And that's Zora, of course, who uses the snake as part of her act.

Why was the scale in the tub? Zora cleaned up there. Since we also see her cleaning up in the only other scene she's in (when Deckard finds her backstage), we can assume that getting clean is one of the weird replicant traits that shapes her personality. (All the humans are pretty filthy after all.)

Ultimately, though, it's just a clue for Deckard to find so that he can act like a detective and the movie can look like film noir.

EDIT: Just for a minute there, this thread was queued just above "Android Under Fire."
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Debris »

TiLT wrote:
Yes there is. Deckard is a replicant, at least if you watch the real version of the movie, the one without the narrator. It's such a twist that many still deny it.
I kinda had that feeling with some of the things said in the movie. When Bryant forced Deckard back into service, he told him that he wasn't a cop, he was one of the little people or something along those lines. Also, the pictures that Deckard had on his piano. He seemed to hold them as dear as some of the other replicants. the only thing that turned me against that line of thinking was that he did not have the physical abilities as the other replicants, and he apparently did not have a shortened life span.

The animals make a lot more sense now. I do remember even tyrell saying that even he couldn't afford a real owl. Zora said the same thing about the snake, and how she wouldn't be working there if she had a real snake. Which makes me think about the bird(s) at the end of the movie. There were pigeons or doves on top of Sebastian's flat, Roy even grabbed one and held it just before he died. Where those real or replicants?
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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Holman wrote:
EDIT: Just for a minute there, this thread was queued just above "Android Under Fire."
You should start a thread titled "Attack Ships on Fire".
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Odin »

The theatrical version is on Netflix Instantwatch (the first time in months that I've looked up a movie I wanted to watch and it was actually available) so I'm re-watching it now. Man, Ford really phoned in those voiceovers. I wonder if he literally did it over the phone.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Smoove_B »

Ask the man himself:
When we started shooting it had been tacitly agreed that the version of the film that we had agreed upon was the version without voiceover narration. It was a f**king nightmare. I thought that the film had worked without the narration. But now I was stuck re-creating that narration. And I was obliged to do the voiceovers for people that did not represent the director's interests.

I went kicking and screaming to the studio to record it.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by hentzau »

I always just kind of assumed that she just kept the snake in the tub. If I had a giant boa, and didn't have a big terrarium to keep it in, that's where I would keep it.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Holman »

Debris wrote: The animals make a lot more sense now. I do remember even tyrell saying that even he couldn't afford a real owl. Zora said the same thing about the snake, and how she wouldn't be working there if she had a real snake. Which makes me think about the bird(s) at the end of the movie. There were pigeons or doves on top of Sebastian's flat, Roy even grabbed one and held it just before he died. Where those real or replicants?
I've always thought that, since they're living on the roof and not in some private collection, the doves were wild birds. You know, some of the last wild creatures, just like Roy wants to be, etc etc.

Blade Runner is a movie that goes from provocative to pretentious and back in nothing flat.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by LordMortis »

I loved the narration so screw both Scott and Ford. I also liked it way better when Deckard being a replicant was merely a possibility and not something shoved in your face, much like the subtle you never get figure out if the narrator of Total Recall ever did get out of his head. (Watch it again and pay particular attention to the whole "Wall of reality come crashing down around you scene) A movie of possibility, of interpretation is a movie that makes you think about it, talk about it.
But now I was stuck re-creating that narration.
So much the better. Your mix of spite and apathy probably helped the feeling your narration gave and made it better than the normal film noir narration, further mixing the literature of the past with the future and helped me get so lost in it that, even after nearly thirty years of not hearing the narration (which Scott wouldn't (re?)release), I still add it in a lot of scenes in my head.

1) To the original post, the four refugee replicants kept track of each other and tried to watch out for each other. So she could have easily gone their to shower after a performance one night, leaving a snake scale in the tub.

2) If you had seen the voice over, Decker wonders the same thing and comes to the same conclusion. He speculates that in his last moments, Roy came to appreciate life. All life. But that's speculation.

3) Vegas, baby, Vegas.

Walk now. Walk now Walk now. Walk now.


Yes there is. Deckard is a replicant, at least if you watch the real version of the movie, the one without the narrator. It's such a twist that many still deny it.
Again, one of the reasons, I like the theatrical release better than the director's cut. Without dreams of unicorns and with Decker's obliviousness to the whole thing right up until that end, all you get are vague allusions from the most important people like Tyrell and Edward James Olmos. The lack of definition gives so much more power to the entire movie.

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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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Hadn't watched this in several years and a friend had never seen it. Decided to watch the Director's Cut. Do you all realize how SLOOOOOOWWWWW this movie is without Decker's narration? I wound up fast-forwarding threw a bunch of it, because it was dull and repetetive with just the music and scenery.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by ImLawBoy »

LordMortis wrote:even after nearly thirty years of not hearing the narration (which Scott wouldn't (re?)release)
It was included in the box set a few years ago (the one that came in a briefcase with different versions of the movie).
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Isgrimnur »

Netflix tells me that I watched the Theatrical version back in 2005. And I was not impressed with it at all. I really wanted to like it, but I just couldn't get into it.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by LordMortis »

ImLawBoy wrote:
LordMortis wrote:even after nearly thirty years of not hearing the narration (which Scott wouldn't (re?)release)
It was included in the box set a few years ago (the one that came in a briefcase with different versions of the movie).
I can't remember if I couldn't find an answer for that at the time or if I knew the answer, saw the price, and said "whatever." I do remember the question about it when that briefcase version was talked about here though, now that you mention it. Either way, I have the director's cut because they (he?) wouldn't release the theatrical release at the time and I'm not likely to spend real money on more DVDs for a media that looks like it could be antiquated by streaming.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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theohall wrote:Hadn't watched this in several years and a friend had never seen it. Decided to watch the Director's Cut. Do you all realize how SLOOOOOOWWWWW this movie is without Decker's narration? I wound up fast-forwarding threw a bunch of it, because it was dull and repetetive with just the music and scenery.
Even though I hate the narration, I totally agree. Despite that, I really like this movie. I think its mostly because I merged it with the book and the 1997 pc game into one giant mushy story in my brain.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Zekester »

Ok, this seems like a good time to ask:

What's the skinny on all of the different versions? At this point, i dont even know which one i've seen.

.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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Zekester wrote:Ok, this seems like a good time to ask:

What's the skinny on all of the different versions? At this point, i dont even know which one i've seen.

.
I only know of two versions:

1) The theatrical version which is what the studios released to theaters when it first appeared.

2) The director's cut which is the version that Ridley really made.

The latter is the preferred version for connoisseurs of Ridley films as it doesn't dumb down the movie with a voice over that constantly tells you what's happening as you watch it happen. It also leaves in the very intriguing "twist ending".
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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hepcat wrote:The latter is the preferred version for connoisseurs of Ridley films as it doesn't dumb down the movie with a voice over that constantly tells you what's happening as you watch it happen. It also leaves in the very intriguing "twist ending".
It's even worse than that. The theatrical ending adds a stupid happy ending ("Oh yeah, she's not going to die. We were just kidding."), bright colors, and stock footage from The Shining (I think), not to mention the bloody stupid and completely unnecessary narrating. It's like they were trying their damnedest to destroy the entire impact of the movie in the last 30 seconds.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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TiLT wrote:It's like they were trying their damnedest to destroy the entire impact of the movie in the last 30 seconds.
Also see: Will Smith in I am Legend
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Zekester »

What about the pre-release version that was changed for the US?
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by hepcat »

Smoove_B wrote:
TiLT wrote:It's like they were trying their damnedest to destroy the entire impact of the movie in the last 30 seconds.
Also see: Will Smith in I am Legend
To be fair, that was murdered in its sleep the moment they attached Will Smith to it. The hatchet job they did on the story was simply the studio eagerly raping the corpse.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Zekester »

hepcat wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:
TiLT wrote:It's like they were trying their damnedest to destroy the entire impact of the movie in the last 30 seconds.
Also see: Will Smith in I am Legend
To be fair, that was murdered in its sleep the moment they attached Will Smith to it. The hatchet job they did on the story was simply the studio eagerly raping the corpse.
I grew up watching The Omega Man a million times*, so not even the actual novella was a good enough version, let alone Will Smith's.

*not intended to be a factual statement
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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Zekester wrote:
hepcat wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:
TiLT wrote:It's like they were trying their damnedest to destroy the entire impact of the movie in the last 30 seconds.
Also see: Will Smith in I am Legend
To be fair, that was murdered in its sleep the moment they attached Will Smith to it. The hatchet job they did on the story was simply the studio eagerly raping the corpse.
I grew up watching The Omega Man a million times*, so not even the actual novella was a good enough version, let alone Will Smith's.

*not intended to be a factual statement
okay..NOW I'm going to smack you. :P the novella was first AND it was the best. I like the Heston version for the cheese factor, but it's a very, very, very pale comparison to the Matheson story.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by hentzau »

In the Complete Collectors Edition there are five versions of the film:

RIDLEY SCOTT'S ALL-NEW "FINAL CUT" VERSION OF THE FILM - Restored and remastered with added & extended scenes, added lines, new and cleaner special effects and all new 5.1 Dolby Digital Audio.

1982 THEATRICAL VERSION

1982 INTERNATIONAL VERSION

1992 DIRECTOR'S CUT

WORKPRINT VERSION

(Swiped from Amazon.)
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Holman »

hentzau wrote:In the Complete Collectors Edition there are five versions of the film:

RIDLEY SCOTT'S ALL-NEW "FINAL CUT" VERSION OF THE FILM - Restored and remastered with added & extended scenes, added lines, new and cleaner special effects and all new 5.1 Dolby Digital Audio.

1982 THEATRICAL VERSION

1982 INTERNATIONAL VERSION

1992 DIRECTOR'S CUT

WORKPRINT VERSION

(Swiped from Amazon.)
How much is actually added in the SuperExtraFinal Cut as opposed to the 1992 Director's Cut? Is it "awesome LOTR extra scenes" or "lame Apocalypse Now Redux" extra scenes?
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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Holman wrote:
How much is actually added in the SuperExtraFinal Cut as opposed to the 1992 Director's Cut? Is it "awesome LOTR extra scenes" or "lame Apocalypse Now Redux" extra scenes?
If I'm not mistaken, the snake has one line.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by hentzau »

Holman wrote:
hentzau wrote:In the Complete Collectors Edition there are five versions of the film:

RIDLEY SCOTT'S ALL-NEW "FINAL CUT" VERSION OF THE FILM - Restored and remastered with added & extended scenes, added lines, new and cleaner special effects and all new 5.1 Dolby Digital Audio.

1982 THEATRICAL VERSION

1982 INTERNATIONAL VERSION

1992 DIRECTOR'S CUT

WORKPRINT VERSION

(Swiped from Amazon.)
How much is actually added in the SuperExtraFinal Cut as opposed to the 1992 Director's Cut? Is it "awesome LOTR extra scenes" or "lame Apocalypse Now Redux" extra scenes?
No clue. I've had this set on my Amazon Wish List for forever it seems, but no one wants to buy it for me. :(

And I fell off of the Blade Runner being the first new media that I buy kick with the blu ray. The first VHS tape that I bought was Blade Runner. The first DVD I bought was Blade Runner (The Directors Cut). The first HD-DVD I bought was BR. But when I got my Blu-Ray player, the store didn't have Blade Runner in stock. I honestly don't know what my first Blu Ray that I bought was...
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

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hepcat wrote:The latter is the preferred version for connoisseurs of Ridley films as it doesn't dumb down the movie with a voice over that constantly tells you what's happening as you watch it happen.
While it may be the preferred version by most, I don't buy into it. The voice over gives the movie two things that are both very well done. 1) It gives you Decker's perspective, irrespective of what you are watching. 2) It implants the classic film noir style in your psyche and that gets juxtaposed to a future dystopia. I think the device is done better than I've seen in any other movie, possibly because of Scott and Ford's disdain for it. Without the voice over that personality is drained from the movie as well as the intriguing detective work where the detective might literally be searching for his soul and we're not sure if he'll figure it.
TiLT wrote:It's even worse than that. The theatrical ending adds a stupid happy ending ("Oh yeah, she's not going to die. We were just kidding."), bright colors, and stock footage from The Shining (I think), not to mention the bloody stupid and completely unnecessary narrating. It's like they were trying their damnedest to destroy the entire impact of the movie in the last 30 seconds.
Meh. No movie's perfect and the music was awesome.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by hepcat »

LordMortis wrote:
hepcat wrote:The latter is the preferred version for connoisseurs of Ridley films as it doesn't dumb down the movie with a voice over that constantly tells you what's happening as you watch it happen.
While it may be the preferred version by most, I don't buy into it. The voice over gives the movie two things that are both very well done. 1) It gives you Decker's perspective, irrespective of what you are watching. 2) It implants the classic film noir style in your psyche and that gets juxtaposed to a future dystopia. I think the device is done better than I've seen in any other movie, possibly because of Scott and Ford's disdain for it. Without the voice over that personality is drained from the movie as well as the intriguing detective work where the detective might literally be searching for his soul and we're not sure if he'll figure it.
if they were actually interior dialogues intended to add dimension to Decker's motivation, I might buy into this. However, when they're almost all simply explanations of things we just saw that don't add anything to the narrative other than a reprisal of what just happened for anyone who may have fallen asleep, not so much.
TiLT wrote:It's even worse than that. The theatrical ending adds a stupid happy ending ("Oh yeah, she's not going to die. We were just kidding."), bright colors, and stock footage from The Shining (I think), not to mention the bloody stupid and completely unnecessary narrating. It's like they were trying their damnedest to destroy the entire impact of the movie in the last 30 seconds.

Meh. No movie's perfect and the music was awesome.


"no movie's perfect" and "the music was good" are spectacularly weak arguments FOR that ending. :lol: :wink:
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by TiLT »

LordMortis wrote:While it may be the preferred version by most, I don't buy into it. The voice over gives the movie two things that are both very well done. 1) It gives you Decker's perspective, irrespective of what you are watching.
This just isn't right. Harrison Ford is a good enough actor that he manages to convey his thoughts and feelings without opening his mouth. Even TV channels have started to realize that this is possible. Do you know one of the main difference between good drama TV series in the 90s compared to today? Modern series dare leave things unsaid, letting the viewer draw conclusions based on good acting and good cinematography. This is one of the things that made The Sopranos so revolutionary. By having things spelled out for you you're essentially insulting your own intelligence.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Isgrimnur »

IMDB alternate versions page. With details about:
  • The videos with the Euro version
  • The CBS edit
  • 2007 Ridley Scott Final Cut
  • a possible added line in the cable release
  • the workprint version
  • the Swedish version
  • San Diego sneak preview
  • 1992 revised version
Spoilers abound, of course.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by LordMortis »

hepcat wrote:"no movie's perfect" and "the music was good" are spectacularly weak arguments FOR that ending. :lol: :wink:
Yes they are. I wasn't arguing for that ending. I'm saying I preferred that cut of the movie that came with that ending.
TiLT wrote:This just isn't right. Harrison Ford is a good enough actor that he manages to convey his thoughts and feelings without opening his mouth. Even TV channels have started to realize that this is possible. Do you know one of the main difference between good drama TV series in the 90s compared to today? Modern series dare leave things unsaid, letting the viewer draw conclusions based on good acting and good cinematography. This is one of the things that made The Sopranos so revolutionary.


I liked the his not conveying his thoughts and feeling until later in the movie. I liked his void of emotion narration also not betraying him. I thought it added to the movie. I don't think it was very intriguing what his narration left unsaid as well as what it said.
By having things spelled out for you you're essentially insulting your own intelligence.
I don't know. It depends on what's going on. I find that when I go to a museum contemporary artists leave me looking at paintings of polar bears eating vanilla ice cream in snow storms but then I when I read things spelled out for me I can actually latch on to some of it. Other times I look at works and wonder how people ever made it. Show me Don't tell me has been such a mantra for so long that Rush made a song about it. And telling me is not really a device and it's not really necessary but rather it seems to be just because that's what the author knows how to do.

You can feel free to hate the way it dumbed down or spelled out the film. I'll continue to love how they played Film Noir. My intelligence is not insulted, my sense of the possible and the fantastic and fabricated is stimulated.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Grundbegriff »

Holman wrote:EDIT: Just for a minute there, this thread was queued just above "Android Under Fire."
Nice
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Grundbegriff »

Holman wrote:How much is actually added in the SuperExtraFinal Cut as opposed to the 1992 Director's Cut? Is it "awesome LOTR extra scenes" or "lame Apocalypse Now Redux" extra scenes?
It fixes some of the scenes that ended up being lame (e.g., when a certain character under hot pursuit smashes through multiple plate glass windows and is conspicuously a stunt double with a different hair color and body build). It also cuts back down to size some scenes that were lengthened only to accommodate the (lame) voiceover. And it fixes a bunch of continuity errors, and enhances a few special effects. Here's a pretty thorough explanation of the delta.

I'm one who likes the director's cut and disliked the theatrical release, so I think the "Final Cut" version is outstanding; it's the director's cut with no constraints.
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Debris »

As a first time viewer, I actually appreciated the voice overs to quickly explain things such as WTF Gaff was saying to Deckard at the sushi bar. I actually noticed that the voice overs stopped for a long time in the middle of the movie. I would like to see the other versions just to compare and contrast them to see which is better.

BTW, the ending did seem a little weird. During the movie, LA seemed completely fucked up. It rained all the time, it was over crowded and lacked any type of natural environment at all. Then they have Rachel and Deckard driving through the mountains complete with blue skies and snow topped peaks. I remember thinking that that would be a good place to catch owls. :) I was under the assumption that the world was void of nature, which is why everyone wanted to go off world. That scene seemed way out of place to me and basically said that outside of the cities, everything is normal.
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theohall
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by theohall »

Grundbegriff wrote:
Holman wrote:How much is actually added in the SuperExtraFinal Cut as opposed to the 1992 Director's Cut? Is it "awesome LOTR extra scenes" or "lame Apocalypse Now Redux" extra scenes?
It fixes some of the scenes that ended up being lame (e.g., when a certain character under hot pursuit smashes through multiple plate glass windows and is conspicuously a stunt double with a different hair color and body build). It also cuts back down to size some scenes that were lengthened only to accommodate the (lame) voiceover. And it fixes a bunch of continuity errors, and enhances a few special effects. Here's a pretty thorough explanation of the delta.

I'm one who likes the director's cut and disliked the theatrical release, so I think the "Final Cut" version is outstanding; it's the director's cut with no constraints.
It also unnecessarily lengthens scenes which make the film drag. How many times does one have to see them going to the pyramid like Tyrell Corporation? Every time, in the Director's cut version, the scene is darn near 5 minutes of nothing but music and showing that pyramid. It gets old really fast. They also extend the scenes "showing off" the city while nothing is happening. Most of that is portrayed very clearly towards the beginning when they show the city and pan down to Decker at the food stand. It makes the movie seriously drag. Not a fan of the overly long Director's Cut.
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JSHAW
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by JSHAW »

After seeing the list of all the different versions of BR I have no idea how anyone would keep track of all the differences in
all the films.

It's almost like you'd have to watch the movie with a pencil and paper and write down all the details that differ
from film to film. Who has the time to watch 5-6 different versions of BR, especially one right after another.

There has to be 1 BR fanatic that has compiled a list of this stuff and has it on a website. But I'll be damned if I
try and locate it. :lol:
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JSHAW
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by JSHAW »

One more thing, BR is a movie that can help me fall asleep if I've got some insomnia going. The soundtrack alone
has a tranquilizing effect on me when tired but can't go to sleep. I guess I could say that about the movie too. :lol:

I haven't heard the name Vangelis in a long time, not since the Chariots of FIre days.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Isgrimnur »

JSHAW wrote:There has to be 1 BR fanatic that has compiled a list of this stuff and has it on a website. But I'll be damned if I
try and locate it. :lol:
:doh: :grund:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Grundbegriff
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Re: First time Blade Runner viewing - with questions

Post by Grundbegriff »

theohall wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:I'm one who likes the director's cut and disliked the theatrical release, so I think the "Final Cut" version is outstanding; it's the director's cut with no constraints.
It also unnecessarily lengthens scenes which make the film drag. How many times does one have to see them going to the pyramid like Tyrell Corporation?
Some people need action and adventure in every minute of every flick; some don't. ;)
It makes the movie seriously drag. Not a fan of the overly long Director's Cut.
The brilliant use of time, stillness, silence, patience, and contemplation-- this is one of the many virtues of the Final Cut.
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