USPS closings

[Isgrimnur]

CNN

Postmaster General Patrick Donohoe released a long-awaited "post office study" of nearly 3,700 potential closings in all 50 states and Washington, D.C.
...
The closings announcement came as no surprise, since the service announced plans last January to shut down thousands of stations and branches as part of an effort to stem steep losses.

In fiscal year 2010, the Postal Service suffered a $8.5 billion net loss, compared to a loss of $3.8 billion the prior year. Last quarter, the U.S. Postal Service posted a loss of $2.2 billion. Its fiscal year ends in September.

Most of the post offices being studied for closure have so little foot traffic that workers average less than two hours of work per day and average sales are less than $50 a day, according to Postal Service spokeswoman Sue Brennan. The closings are expected to begin within the next four to six months, most likely in January.

List sorted by state can be found here. Looks like Dallas could be losing three locations that I'm not familiar with. Houston could lose nine locations.

[Enough]

And another leg gets kicked out from under rural America.

[Smoove_B]

I had thought that too, but in NJ it would seem that the offices that are closing are in urban areas. I thought for sure we were going to lose one of the three rural ones that are within 10 miles of my house, but not a single one was on the list.

[Lordnine]

14 closings in Vermont. Looking at the list it doesn't surprise me. A lot of those locations didn't really run in winter anyways because they were in areas composed mostly of dirt roads that became dangerous or outright impassible from January-April.

[rshetts2]

Detroit alone is losing 10. From what I could see they are eliminating alot of urban redunancy and not hitting rural areas as much.

[LordMortis]

I am amazed at how many postal offices we have around here. Not the amount of mail carriers. I have no idea what it takes to get me a letter from anywhere in the US in about three days or less. But the amount of buildings seems to make things even more into a nightmare rather than less. We have offices almost as common as McDonald's around here. Usually two to three per school district/suburbanly populated 36 square mile of area making most people around here never more than about three miles from an office. Shit, I've got two post offices between my house and my post office. When I got notices to pick something up, it would be nice to be able to go to the one with walking distance, but noooo, I gotta get in my car and drive four miles.

[ibdoomed]

Wow... we're losing 90... that's a lot.

[Lassr]

None in my area. Although last year one of the rural ones near Huntsville went to PO Boxes only. My local post office now serves that area.

[stessier]

Wow... we're losing 90... that's a lot.

I'm not sure what state that is, so maybe. But if they are closing 3700 over 50 states, that's about 75/state. So 90 isn't so crazy.

[Isgrimnur]

Texas is throwing off the curve with 222 on the list.

And bear in mind, this isn't a list of final declared closings, just who are going to be on the list for investigation. Some of them may yet survive.

[Enough]

Detroit alone is losing 10. From what I could see they are eliminating alot of urban redunancy and not hitting rural areas as much.

Almost all of the offices in Colorado are rural.

[Scuzz]

0 in my city..........

[LordMortis]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po ... fices.html" target="_blank

Weird. Ann Arbor is considered part of Detroit and Royal Oak isn't? That's beyond incomprehensible to me. To talk to any Ann Arborite Detroit may as well be Chicago. Where as the Detroit Zoo is in Royal Oak, Woodward is the heart of Royal Oak, and as far as I know that entire area considers itself Detroit and wear the old English D with pride. Also, a really bad sign for my already dead property value is that Wayne/Westland is proposed as closing two post offices.

[stessier]

Also, a really bad sign for my already dead property value is that Wayne/Westland is proposed as closing two post offices.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The two times I've bought a house, my first thought, nor my hundreth, has ever been - But where is the nearest post office?

[LordMortis]

Also, a really bad sign for my already dead property value is that Wayne/Westland is proposed as closing two post offices.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The two times I've bought a house, my first thought, nor my hundreth, has ever been - But where is the nearest post office?

I assume the closing have to do with the lack of use and the lack of use has to do with flight from the area, which reinforces my the toilet my house value is in.

[stessier]

Also, a really bad sign for my already dead property value is that Wayne/Westland is proposed as closing two post offices.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The two times I've bought a house, my first thought, nor my hundreth, has ever been - But where is the nearest post office?

I assume the closing have to do with the lack of use and the lack of use has to do with flight from the area, which reinforces my the toilet my house value is in.

I don't know - lack of use is pretty wide spread if they are shuttering (or talking about shuttering) 3700. People aren't fleeing from all of these places. It's just economics - competition from FedEx, UPS, and the internet. I think I've been to the post office about 10 times in the last 7 years.

Not to say your area is not depressed or anything - I just wouldn't point to this as a sign of that.

[Kraken]

Also, a really bad sign for my already dead property value is that Wayne/Westland is proposed as closing two post offices.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The two times I've bought a house, my first thought, nor my hundreth, has ever been - But where is the nearest post office?

It matters quite a lot to me because USPS is my primary parcel carrier. I use Carrier Pickup when I have a big batch of packages going out, but otherwise I swing by the PO nearly every day.

Fortunately my outlet does brisk business and isn't on the list.

[LawBeefaroni]

Some 3,061 post offices with less than $27,500 in annual revenue, or 2 hours of workload daily.

Wow, good riddance. I bet many of these are the ones that were supposed to shut down in 2009.

[Exodor]

Detroit alone is losing 10. From what I could see they are eliminating alot of urban redunancy and not hitting rural areas as much.

Almost all of the offices in Colorado are rural.

Every Oregon office scheduled for closure is rural.

Since I live in the city...meh.

[tjg_marantz]

Detroit alone is losing 10. From what I could see they are eliminating alot of urban redunancy and not hitting rural areas as much.

Almost all of the offices in Colorado are rural.

Every Oregon office scheduled for closure is rural.

Since I live in the city...meh.

Aren't all of Colorado and Oregon rural? Close 'em all!

[stessier]

Detroit alone is losing 10. From what I could see they are eliminating alot of urban redunancy and not hitting rural areas as much.

Almost all of the offices in Colorado are rural.

Every Oregon office scheduled for closure is rural.

Since I live in the city...meh.

Aren't all of Colorado and Oregon rural? Close 'em all!

Honestly, excepting LA, everything west of the Appalachains is considered rural by most everyone that matters.

[Default]

Since I work for them....

Most of what the po wants to shut down are the tiny stations that have 3-4 employees, including the postmaster. It is a money loser to corporate, to have a lot of tiny offices open in areas like Tennessee, West Virginia, where the population is small and the distances are great. They would much rather have you pay for the gas to drive to clusterboxes and pick your mail up, than to pay for someone to drive 60 miles a day in a postal vehicle and put mail in a roadside box.

Competition from Fedex and UPS isn't really a factor. Parcel business has been up quite a bit, due to meds by mail and ebay. Amazon and other internet shopping has boosted the revenue stream as well. The biggest loss is first class mail, in particular, the mailing of bills. Nobody writes letters or sends cards- haven't for the past 20 years (5 bucks for a card? Eesh), so that reason is minor.


IMHO, the reason for the low foot traffic at a lot of those rural offices are the often ludicrous hours of operation. I had to send my kid some meds at camp once, and the small PO there closed at 3:30. C'mon, how are you supposed to serve the public when you are closed before and after work and you have one clerk on duty during the lunch rush?

The reason that we have lost money is due to "prefunding" our retirees, which is what you might call a hidden tax.

Post Office Says Pre-Funding Retiree Health Care is Reason for Loss

February 9, 2011 (PLANSPONSOR.com) – The U.S. Postal Service announced it had a loss of $329 million for the first quarter of the fiscal year — October 1, 2010 – December 31, 2010.

According to the Associated Press, the agency says it continues to lose money at a rapid pace thanks to a requirement that it make advance payments to cover expected health care costs for future retirees. Without the requirement, the post office said it would have had a net profit of $226 million for the quarter.

The news report said Congress has proposed easing the upfront payments, which are not required of any other government agency.

"The Postal Service continues to seek changes in the law to enable a more flexible and sustainable business model," Postmaster General Patrick R. Donahoe said in a statement, according to the AP.

The post office has sharply cut staff and reduced other expenses, and is considering closing smaller post offices to further trim costs.
The $329 million loss was up from a $297 million loss in the same period the year before, which ended with a total loss of $8.5 billion.

http://www.plansponsor.com/Post_Office_ ... _Loss.aspx" target="_blank


That is the major reason that the USPS has been bleeding red ink.

[Smoove_B]

While not related to closings, I'm pretty sure it's related to managing their budget and logistics. Since NJ is now a hub station for Amazon, I've noticed a significant number of packages that used to come via UPS are now being handed off to the USPS. Three out of my last five deliveries have been mismanaged and delayed, a point I've raised with Amazon.

The latest delay was a package shipped from Florida -- which amazingly would have been at my house yesterday, two days after it was shipped. Except somehow it was sent from the distribution center in Teterboro (where it arrived on a plane) to a postal facility in a neighboring town (about a 15 miles away). Now, instead of that postal facility forwarding it my local branch they sent it back to Teterboro (60+ miles away) for them to then pass it back to my local post office.

The amount of time and gasoline wasted in what could have been fixed by simply handing it off to a neighboring town...is mind boggling.

I fear for the USPS.

[LawBeefaroni]

The amount of time and gasoline wasted in what could have been fixed by simply handing it off to a neighboring town...is mind boggling.

I fear for the USPS.

Logisitics are often counter-intuitive. Not saying you're wrong, but the pings don't always make sense until you see the whole system. If there was already a truck going to the hub and none going to the next town, they actually saved gas.

[Vorret]

The amount of time and gasoline wasted in what could have been fixed by simply handing it off to a neighboring town...is mind boggling.

I fear for the USPS.

Logisitics are often counter-intuitive. Not saying you're wrong, but the pings don't always make sense until you see the whole system. If there was already a truck going to the hub and none going to the next town, they actually saved gas.

Bit disappointed in your 33333 post.
Oh well.

[LawBeefaroni]

The amount of time and gasoline wasted in what could have been fixed by simply handing it off to a neighboring town...is mind boggling.

I fear for the USPS.

Logisitics are often counter-intuitive. Not saying you're wrong, but the pings don't always make sense until you see the whole system. If there was already a truck going to the hub and none going to the next town, they actually saved gas.

Bit disappointed in your 33333 post.
Oh well.

Yeah, I just saw that I was approaching the mark in the other thread but it was too late. This was already up.

I guess 11110 more until my next chance.

[Rumpy]

And in Canada the post-office, at least regionally due to the large distances, is still heavily being used. Doesn't really show any signs of slowing down.

[malchior]

I was a little worried about USPS because historically in my town there is a two-step process. We have a regional mail center in the city (about 4 miles from my house) and then they would transfer it to the local post office (about 2.5 miles from my house). This process would often take an extra day. If I missed a delivery I couldn't go to the post office and pick it up. I had to wait until the next day. Anyway, since Amazon has stepped up shipments through USPS this limitation has magically gone away. The biggest problem is the USPS tracking is garbage and is never accurate. But still it beats UPS who seemingly lives to crush boxes.

[Octavious]

I hate ordering stuff. If it's anything slightly expensive I'm always stressed out until it arrives. I think I lost a few years off my life when I ordered the one TV online. I'd rather pay a bit more and pick the thing right up. I'm a dying breed apparently.

[LawBeefaroni]

I hate ordering stuff. If it's anything slightly expensive I'm always stressed out until it arrives. I think I lost a few years off my life when I ordered the one TV online. I'd rather pay a bit more and pick the thing right up. I'm a dying breed apparently.

It's on them until it gets to your door. Not worth stressing about unless it's a one-of-a-kind.

You want stress, try being on the shipping end and dropping a few thousand dollars worth of stuff in a mail slot. The fine print on USPS insurance is not all that encouraging.

[Isgrimnur]

He's had issues once it gets to his door. He's still down a lawnmower as well, and that had nothing to do with shipping woes.

[LawBeefaroni]

Oh yeah, I guess get signature-required delivery when you can. If it's not available, I can see the problem.



Or every few days, mail yourself feces in an Amazon box. Inside, label the zip-loc baggies things like "We are so close to a breakthrough with this one!" or "Will this work for the project?". Don't rush to collect your mail off the porch, feel free to leave it out overnight. The mail thefts will soon stop.

[malchior]

I've always wondered about this - so if I order something and they just drop it on my doorstop without a signature - it is still my problem if it walks?

[Octavious]

He's had issues once it gets to his door. He's still down a lawnmower as well, and that had nothing to do with shipping woes.

Aside from the lawnmower I've also had a 2 gift cards that were mailed out vanish. A tv that was shipped with no means of getting it into the house. (It was an old tube HD set that weighed like 180 pounds.) A bed that was dragged through mud and dumped into a puddle. And a box that was totally ripped open on the side with the contents hanging out. It's seriously just not worth trying to mail stuff in my area. Sometimes I just have stuff shipped to my dads house as it's just so much safer.

[LawBeefaroni]

I've always wondered about this - so if I order something and they just drop it on my doorstop without a signature - it is still my problem if it walks?

Depends how it was shipped. If signature is required and they don't have one, it's their problem.

If there's no signature required, it's their word against yours. With delivery confirmation they can scan it as delivered without a sig. Mail carriers can be helpful tracking stuf down though and despite most peoples' first instinct to blame them, it's almost always someone/something else.

[Kraken]

I've always wondered about this - so if I order something and they just drop it on my doorstop without a signature - it is still my problem if it walks?

Depends how it was shipped. If signature is required and they don't have one, it's their problem.

If there's no signature required, it's their word against yours. With delivery confirmation they can scan it as delivered without a sig. Mail carriers can be helpful tracking stuf down though and despite most peoples' first instinct to blame them, it's almost always someone/something else.

Yup, once that delivery confirmation barcode is scanned you own the package. It's always a good idea to follow the tracking and bring it inside ASAP, because if it disappears off your porch it's just gone. And package thieves are out in force during the xmas season. Missing packages sometimes turn up if you notify USPS within a day or two of its supposed delivery...but if you don't report it missing for a week, it's history.

More than once a customer has complained about a missing package only to have it show up a day or two after it was confirmed delivered. Some carriers scan the package when it goes onto their truck instead of when they drop it off. They aren't supposed to do that, of course, but people do like to take shortcuts.

It looks like Amazon is in the process of taking over the USPS anyway. USPS is going to start Sunday package deliveries for Amazon in a couple of markets next month.

[malchior]

Yup, once that delivery confirmation barcode is scanned you own the package. It's always a good idea to follow the tracking and bring it inside ASAP, because if it disappears off your porch it's just gone. And package thieves are out in force during the xmas season. Missing packages sometimes turn up if you notify USPS within a day or two of its supposed delivery...but if you don't report it missing for a week, it's history.

More than once a customer has complained about a missing package only to have it show up a day or two after it was confirmed delivered. Some carriers scan the package when it goes onto their truck instead of when they drop it off. They aren't supposed to do that, of course, but people do like to take shortcuts.

It looks like Amazon is in the process of taking over the USPS anyway. USPS is going to start Sunday package deliveries for Amazon in a couple of markets next month.

Wow - I had no idea. And Amazon never requires signatures. I have had $1000 items just left on my porch. So for big ticket items I should totally have it held at the local office.

[Kraken]

Yup, once that delivery confirmation barcode is scanned you own the package. It's always a good idea to follow the tracking and bring it inside ASAP, because if it disappears off your porch it's just gone. And package thieves are out in force during the xmas season. Missing packages sometimes turn up if you notify USPS within a day or two of its supposed delivery...but if you don't report it missing for a week, it's history.

More than once a customer has complained about a missing package only to have it show up a day or two after it was confirmed delivered. Some carriers scan the package when it goes onto their truck instead of when they drop it off. They aren't supposed to do that, of course, but people do like to take shortcuts.

It looks like Amazon is in the process of taking over the USPS anyway. USPS is going to start Sunday package deliveries for Amazon in a couple of markets next month.

Wow - I had no idea. And Amazon never requires signatures. I have had $1000 items just left on my porch. So for big ticket items I should totally have it held at the local office.

Priority Mail (the USPS standard service) is supposed to require personal delivery unless the sender ticks a box indicating that it's OK to leave the package. If you aren't home the carrier is supposed to leave a notice and take the package back. In reality, that policy is rarely observed. Priority mail is also supposedly insured for $50 by default now. I haven't had an occasion to test that policy yet.

It's mostly a problem for people who live in apartment buildings or whose porches are easily visible from the street. One customer scoffed at the idea that her package could have been stolen because she lives in "a nice neighborhood." She didn't like hearing that nice neighborhoods are the ones that package thieves patrol.

[Blackhawk]

I live in a house divided into three apartments. I live upstairs, and the two downstairs are vacant. There are two front doors, one to apartment #1, and the other that leads into a small foyer with apartment #2 and the stairs up to my apartment. From the outside, the place looks like any other two story house, and the foyer door looks like the front door.

UPS and FedEx know that, if a package requires a signature, they bring it upstairs to my actual door. They know this because there is a sign on the door that reads 'Apartment #3 upstairs.'

In ten years here, I have yet to have the USPS actually try to get my signature. They knock on the downstairs door (you know, the one with the sign. Then, when they don't get an answer (because nobody actually lives behind that door), they drop a 'failed delivery' notice in my box. Every time.

Oh, and about one in five Netflix envelopes shows up already opened. None are missing - apparently I have different tastes in film than the local USPS worker.

[coopasonic]

It's mostly a problem for people who live in apartment buildings or whose porches are easily visible from the street. One customer scoffed at the idea that her package could have been stolen because she lives in "a nice neighborhood." She didn't like hearing that nice neighborhoods are the ones that package thieves patrol.

I want to comment on this, but with my XB1 being delivered next week when I won't be home for many, many hours I'm going to hold my tongue.

Note to Isgrimnur: If you try to steal it my dog might bark at you! She can bark pretty loud.