Smart phones for stupid people

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:34 pm

The battery in my 6-year-old flip phone is dead. Rather than replace it again, I am reluctantly going to get a new phone.

I have been persuaded that, as a online retailer, I ought to get an internet capable phone so that I at least know how to use one. I am told that Verizon will give me one for free or cheap since I've never upgraded before. I understand that I will have to pay an extra $20 a month or so for internet access.

It has to be good at making actual telephone calls -- good sound quality and reliable connections -- so I don't want an iphone. As I understand it that means an Android or a Windows 7 phone. Preferably with a real keyboard. I never carry my phone with me, so size and weight don't matter -- in fact, bigger is better so that I won't lose it when I do have to remove it from my office. Verizon apparently owns our souls, so I'm stuck with them.

What do I need to know before I walk into the Verizon store? Make me a little less stupid.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:20 pm

I think the VZW data plans for smartphones are more like $30/month or so, and I don't think any of the good smartphones will be close to free. It's probably not worth the money if you're not going to get much use out of it.

If you really want a phone with a keyboard and basic email access, you can get something like the LG Cosmos (my wife has one) and pay something like $10 for a cheap data plan.

Quaro · Post by **Quaro** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:41 pm

I don't think it makes sense to save money on the hardware by going with a cheaper phone, when the monthly charge hits you for 2k over the two years you are stuck with the thing.

Go Android or iPhone if your online site is a factor. They are the dominate players.

The Verizon iPhone works fine for phone calls so that shouldn't be the determining factor. Though at this point you should wait until iPhone 5 in June. Remember you'll be stuck with it for two years.

On Android, Droid X is still a solid workhouse Android phone, with a nice giant screen. I'd reconsider whether you really need a keyboard. Almost everyone who buys a phone with a hardware keyboard finds themselves using it less and less over time as they adjust to the on screen one.

ChaoZ · Post by **ChaoZ** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:16 am

The bigger the screen, the more advanced the phone, the shorter the battery life.
My old phone can last like a week on standby. My Captivate probably only 2 days.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:37 am

The Droid Incredible is frequently offered for free, it seems. That's how I got mine. Unfortunately, it's not big, and it doesn't have a physical keyboard. It is a good phone though. I think there's also a $15/month data plan that caps you at 150mb. I'm considering switching to that to save some money since most of the time I'm on my home wifi network, and I don't use much data anyway.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:32 am

Maybe I don't need the keyboard because I have never sent a text message and I block incoming ones. I want the internet component mostly for google and very basic web browsing. I am not going to watch movies or play games on my telephone.

The verizon iphone has the same antenna flaws as the rest of them and I don't like apple-flavored kool-aid anyway, so that's out. There are no ipads or ipods or ipuds or ipids or ipeds or ipyds in my household.

I think the verizon options are android and blackberry. The Incredible sounds like it might be my best choice unless there's something more basic than that. Kraken Enterprises will foot the bill, but it doesn't have deep pockets. I'm already paying $12 a month for cell phone service, so $15 for internet access is already a big jump.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:48 am

Kraken wrote:Maybe I don't need the keyboard because I have never sent a text message and I block incoming ones. I want the internet component mostly for google and very basic web browsing. I am not going to watch movies or play games on my telephone.

The verizon iphone has the same antenna flaws as the rest of them and I don't like apple-flavored kool-aid anyway, so that's out. There are no ipads or ipods or ipuds or ipids or ipeds or ipyds in my household.

I think the verizon options are android and blackberry. The Incredible sounds like it might be my best choice unless there's something more basic than that. Kraken Enterprises will foot the bill, but it doesn't have deep pockets. I'm already paying $12 a month for cell phone service, so $15 for internet access is already a big jump.

Windows Phone 7 will hit Verizon in about 2 weeks, if that intrigues you at all.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:24 am

Kraken wrote: I am told that Verizon will give me one for free or cheap since I've never upgraded before.

My usual PSA in these threads: make sure this is truly the case. I don't know anything about Verison rate plans or upgrades (they are way too expensive overall for me), but with T-Mobile, the "free phone" deals were puppies -- it was high-interest financing disguised. Not only do you have to sign a contract for 2 years, but the rate plans for that "free phone" were all much higher. At the end of that 2 year contract. that "free phone" would have cost me more than the phone did buying outright -- by around $80.

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:22 am

If you aren't playing games or anything then Blackberry,Android, and WP7 are fine. There is also WebOS which is one it's second generation of phones and has a very nice interface from what I've read. Between Blackberry, Android, and WP7 I prefer WP7 (also over iOS). The interface is simple, fast, and intuitive. It looks pretty and the browser works quite well. I think that it is more stable than Android and is a much nicer out of the box experience. The keyboard works significantly better than the stock android keyboard and the live tiles are quite nice. You have a lot of information available at a glance.

Unfortunately, I don't think the LG Quantum is available on Verizon nor is the Dell Venue Pro. I believe they are the only two WP7 phones with a physical keyboard.

Overall, though, pretty much all smartphone OS's should work. It would just be a matter of preference for you.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:41 am

gbasden wrote:Windows Phone 7 will hit Verizon in about 2 weeks, if that intrigues you at all.

For the record, MS has made little to no headway in the mobile market, and is predicted to continue to be a non-player. Nokia, who entered into a windows phones only contract with MS is expected by most to pretty much vanish due to tying their boat to the MS anchor.

Here's just one article claiming Windows 7 mobile will not hit double digit market share, although it's two months old and I'm not sure where Windows 7 is today. Like 2% is what I'm hearing around the office.

I would stay way the hell away from anything MS based unless you like going against the trends for some reason. They really aren't a player in this market, and aren't likely to be. Like, ever.

Android and iPhone are where you should spend your time looking. Blackberry being a distant 3rd. Blackberry's appeal is more corporate anyway. Personal or small businesses are probably better served by Android or iPhone. I recently read an article that claims Android apps will exceed iPhone apps by next year, but I can't remember where I read it.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:42 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Kraken wrote: I am told that Verizon will give me one for free or cheap since I've never upgraded before.
My usual PSA in these threads: make sure this is truly the case. I don't know anything about Verison rate plans or upgrades (they are way too expensive overall for me), but with T-Mobile, the "free phone" deals were puppies -- it was high-interest financing disguised. Not only do you have to sign a contract for 2 years, but the rate plans for that "free phone" were all much higher. At the end of that 2 year contract. that "free phone" would have cost me more than the phone did buying outright -- by around $80.

We're already locked into a Verizon contract. My phone is the 2nd one on the account so it's nominally only $12 a month. I'll be looking for the cheapest data plan I can get since my usage will be very low. I'm not even in the habit of carrying my phone around with me, although that might change when I can access the web.

So I think this is strictly a hardware trade-in, unless they play secret tricks with that. I know that many of the cheap or "free" deals on popular models involve an up-front payment and rebate.

I hate rebates. The Verizon kid processed the one on my original phone wrong and I had to resubmit it three times before they finally turned me down flat. I walked into the Verizon store with all this documentation and correspondence, tracked down their manager, and refused to leave without cash in hand. It took a couple of hours but I did walk out with my money.

I hate Verizon but apparently we're wedded to them, and the other companies don't exactly get high praise either.

I'm intrigued by the Win7 phones and some good reviews that I've read, but I don't want to buy into a potentially orphaned technology, so will probably go with Android.

From Verizon's site it looks like the lower-cost Android choices are:

Droid Incredible $100
LG Vortex $50
Motorola Citrus (free)
Droid R2D2 $100
LG Ally $100
Samsung Continuum $100

...plus some "certified pre-owned" versions of various phones at good prices.

Guess I should read the reviews before I go in. Lots of hate for that Motorola, for instance. Thoughts about any of these models?

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:45 pm

Get something that has at least the 2.2 OS, or you could be stuck with a feature-addled phone. Not all older models will have their firmware upgraded.

SpaceLord · Post by **SpaceLord** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:49 pm

IMHO, the HTC Sense UI is more polished than Motorola Blur. And I read something today about Verizon offering 100 dollar discounts.

lildrgn · Post by **lildrgn** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:43 pm

My MIL has the Motorola Citrus. I haven't used it but she hates it. FYI, YMMV.

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:17 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
gbasden wrote:Windows Phone 7 will hit Verizon in about 2 weeks, if that intrigues you at all.
For the record, MS has made little to no headway in the mobile market, and is predicted to continue to be a non-player. Nokia, who entered into a windows phones only contract with MS is expected by most to pretty much vanish due to tying their boat to the MS anchor.

Here's just one article claiming Windows 7 mobile will not hit double digit market share, although it's two months old and I'm not sure where Windows 7 is today. Like 2% is what I'm hearing around the office.

I would stay way the hell away from anything MS based unless you like going against the trends for some reason. They really aren't a player in this market, and aren't likely to be. Like, ever.

Android and iPhone are where you should spend your time looking. Blackberry being a distant 3rd. Blackberry's appeal is more corporate anyway. Personal or small businesses are probably better served by Android or iPhone. I recently read an article that claims Android apps will exceed iPhone apps by next year, but I can't remember where I read it.

Microsoft was in a similar position with the xbox. That worked out okay for them. In addition, Microsoft is gaining share now with WP7.

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/0 ... share.html" target="_blank

Finally, the guy who wrote the article you linked to has another, more recent one up.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/17564/su ... _six_weeks" target="_blank

From the article:

I've frequently said that Windows Phone 7 sales were tanking, and if Microsoft's sales numbers are accurate, I was clearly wrong. The respectable sales figures show that Microsoft may be able to regain a foothold in the mobile market, which is vital for the company's future. Mobile is where the growth is, and without being a player in the mobile market, Microsoft would be relegated to a slow-growth company.

I don't expect Windows Phone to challenge Android for supremacy, or the iPhone for second place. These sales numbers, as solid as they are, don't indicate that Windows Phone 7 has caught fire in any way. But they do show that Microsoft is clearly in mobile for the long term and will be a competitor. And competition is good for consumers and the overall industry. So for anyone who cares about the future of mobile technology, the sales figures are welcome news.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:22 pm

No, MS is in no way a competitor in this market and won't be for years to come.

Check in again in a few years and we can talk then. Kraken is looking for a phone today, not in years.

Unlike with the xbox, it is clear that MS has pretty much no idea what they are doing in the mobile market. And unless they figure it out, the future looks bleak for them. As at least one of the article said, the future is mobile.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:40 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Here's just one article claiming Windows 7 mobile will not hit double digit market share, although it's two months old and I'm not sure where Windows 7 is today. Like 2% is what I'm hearing around the office.

I would stay way the hell away from anything MS based unless you like going against the trends for some reason. They really aren't a player in this market, and aren't likely to be. Like, ever.

Huh.

March 3, 2011

Nielsen has published its latest numbers on smartphone market share...

...

RIM and Apple were tied for top smartphone OEMs. Smartphones running BlackBerry and Apple OSs each took a 27 percent slice of the market, leaving the scraps to Microsoft's Windows Mobile/Windows Phone 7 (10 percent), Palm (2 percent) and "other" (1 percent).

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:45 pm

GreenGoo wrote:No, MS is in no way a competitor in this market and won't be for years to come.

Check in again in a few years and we can talk then. Kraken is looking for a phone today, not in years.

Unlike with the xbox, it is clear that MS has pretty much no idea what they are doing in the mobile market. And unless they figure it out, the future looks bleak for them. As at least one of the article said, the future is mobile.

That was from your original article. The guy said that MS is dead in the mobile phone market because they don't have a tablet OS. The same guy I quoted who said he was wrong about MS. Microsoft doesn't often give up. The Zune doesn't really compete with the ipod on sales but the Zune has been around for years. They haven't pulled out of that market.

WP7 is a great phone NOW. I have an iPhone. I have a Nexus One. I have an HD7. I've used them all extensively. WP7 the most enjoyable to use of the three. There are over 9000 apps for WP7 already. Android and iOS both had 0 market share at one time. That all changed pretty quickly.

The HTC Dream (T-Mobile G1) was the first android phone on the market in October of 2008. It took until Q2 of 2009 for Android to achieve 2.8% of sales for the quarter. WP7 Achieved 4% of sales in less time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream" target="_blank
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09 ... _2009.html" target="_blank

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:49 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Here's just one article claiming Windows 7 mobile will not hit double digit market share, although it's two months old and I'm not sure where Windows 7 is today. Like 2% is what I'm hearing around the office.

I would stay way the hell away from anything MS based unless you like going against the trends for some reason. They really aren't a player in this market, and aren't likely to be. Like, ever.
Huh.

March 3, 2011

Nielsen has published its latest numbers on smartphone market share...

...

RIM and Apple were tied for top smartphone OEMs. Smartphones running BlackBerry and Apple OSs each took a 27 percent slice of the market, leaving the scraps to Microsoft's Windows Mobile/Windows Phone 7 (10 percent), Palm (2 percent) and "other" (1 percent).

yeah, that's interesting, except that that's actually less market share than they had in 2009, and that 10 percent is both windows mobile AND windows 7.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:09 pm

Here's an article putting a positive on windows 7 phone numbers, with the platform seeing a increase of 2% market share for the phones over 2 months, putting it around 5% total market share at the end of this past January. I'm not surprised, given MS has spent an absolute shit-ton on advertising lately.

Last December showed over 300,000 androids being activated daily.

I'm not really interested in arguing the pros and cons of the phone, as the market has been pretty clear in deciding that MS is a non-player. Future predictions for market growth and share rarely even mention MS.

I'm also not arguing personal preference. If you prefer a windows 7 phone, then you prefer a windows 7 phone. Very few people seem to have the same tastes, but that doesn't mean you're somehow wrong in liking it.

I'll try to remember to check back here next December, when phone sales are normally highest and we can review 2011. If MS has made significant in-roads (say, doubled to 10%? Is that reasonable?) in the market, I'll be more than happy to eat my words.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:16 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Here's just one article claiming Windows 7 mobile will not hit double digit market share, although it's two months old and I'm not sure where Windows 7 is today. Like 2% is what I'm hearing around the office.

I would stay way the hell away from anything MS based unless you like going against the trends for some reason. They really aren't a player in this market, and aren't likely to be. Like, ever.
Huh.

March 3, 2011

Nielsen has published its latest numbers on smartphone market share...

...

RIM and Apple were tied for top smartphone OEMs. Smartphones running BlackBerry and Apple OSs each took a 27 percent slice of the market, leaving the scraps to Microsoft's Windows Mobile/Windows Phone 7 (10 percent), Palm (2 percent) and "other" (1 percent).
yeah, that's interesting, except that that's actually less market share than they had in 2009, and that 10 percent is both windows mobile AND windows 7.

It's more than 2% and is double digits.

I'm not sure why it matters that it's Win Mobile and Win Phone 7 (I assume you didn't mean Windows 7)combined. The Apple and Android versions aren't broken out by version number either. It's just smartphone OS by company.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:24 pm

Does Verizon even have a windows phone yet? As I recall the cdma phones weren't coming out until this quarter at best.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:24 pm

You don't know why it matters that they are combining the two OS's, is that right? You consider one just a new version of the other, is that correct? Not that I need to explain this to you, but owner satisfaction on the earlier win phones is somewhere around 15-18%, so those users are unlikely to move to a new MS product given those numbers. On the other hand, both android and iPhone owner satisfaction are over 50%, so we can expect the majority of those users to move to a newer version of the same product when it is time to upgrade.

the early win phones are legacy phones, will vanish when they get mothballed, and are unlikely to be replaced by newer MS products. They are, for all intents and purposes, a completely different product.

On the flip side, I just saw an informal poll over at zdnet that had good things to say about the Win 7 phones. Sorry if I didn't get the nomenclature right.

I realize I stated that MS has made no headway in the smartphone market, but I mispoke. Later I speak specifically about the 7 platform, and that is what I was talking about. This is another reason I wasn't interested in the CE market share, since I was focused more on the modern products.

If MS marketshare is important to you, then sure, count CE. If modern relevant technology is what you're looking at, then I don't see any reason to include windows mobile.

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:37 pm

Pyperkub wrote:Does Verizon even have a windows phone yet? As I recall the cdma phones weren't coming out until this quarter at best.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

Not yet. I believe it comes out next week.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:57 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote:
Pyperkub wrote:Does Verizon even have a windows phone yet? As I recall the cdma phones weren't coming out until this quarter at best.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Not yet. I believe it comes out next week.

It will be a week or two before I drag myself into the verizon store, so I could conceivably go that route. Probably won't, but it would be a mistake to dismiss MS out of hand.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:06 pm

Can you guys help me out? I've been trying to find out how many Win 7 phones have been activated, or even a rough estimate, but I can't find the numbers anywhere. I'm not being a douche, I'm trying to learn more about the phones and future prospects.

I also keep coming up against the 1.5 million phones sold to mobile operators and retailers but can't find any actual sales numbers to end users. Again, not being a douche, trying to find numbers that means something.

The phones have been on the market in North America since last, November is it? but I haven't been following the Win 7 platform specifically. I assume the release onto the AT&T market should have a big impact, given the size of that network. Have you guys come across any predictions as to sales numbers following it's debut on that network?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:09 pm

Kraken wrote:It will be a week or two before I drag myself into the verizon store, so I could conceivably go that route. Probably won't, but it would be a mistake to dismiss MS out of hand.

Well, not in my opinion, but I'm not you.

On the plus side, the phone market moves so fast, with lots of competition, that unless you lock yourself in for 3 years, you have some flexibility if you find the phone you end up buying is not to your liking.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:21 pm

GreenGoo wrote:No, MS is in no way a competitor in this market and won't be for years to come.

Check in again in a few years and we can talk then. Kraken is looking for a phone today, not in years.

Unlike with the xbox, it is clear that MS has pretty much no idea what they are doing in the mobile market. And unless they figure it out, the future looks bleak for them. As at least one of the article said, the future is mobile.

I don't mean to be rude, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I've been using a WP7 device for 5 months, and it works beautifully. All of the critical apps I need are there, and the interface is head and shoulders above iOS. Is there some functionality missing that you are railing about? WP7 has gotten very good reviews from the likes of Engadget and Gizmodo, so I don't get how you have decided that they have no idea how to design a phone OS.

If you dismiss a phone platform solely by market share, neither iOS nor Android would ever have been launched. About the only thing that matters about share is how attractive the platform is for developers, and last I saw the WP7 marketplace was growing faster than either iOS or Android did at their launch.

zinckiwi · Post by **zinckiwi** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:33 pm

gbasden wrote:About the only thing that matters about share is how attractive the platform is for developers, and last I saw the WP7 marketplace was growing faster than either iOS or Android did at their launch.

I'm about to start my first mobile app project, and am going with WP7.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:33 pm

No offense, but yes I do know what I'm talking about. And I continue to educate myself on the matter, as what was true in December of 2010 might not be true in January of 2011, or today. Or tomorrow.

Marketshare is a useful tool. It's probably the easiest way to illustrate popularity and customer satisfaction, but you're right, it's not the only issue. Marketshare trends are also important.

As I said, let's revisit in a year's time.

And while I've got you here, can you answer some of my questions above, as I'd like to continue to read useful data, but am having trouble finding anything substantial or useful on the Win 7 platform.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:34 pm

zinckiwi wrote:
gbasden wrote:About the only thing that matters about share is how attractive the platform is for developers, and last I saw the WP7 marketplace was growing faster than either iOS or Android did at their launch.
I'm about to start my first mobile app project, and am going with WP7.

Can I ask you why?

zinckiwi · Post by **zinckiwi** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:48 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
zinckiwi wrote:
gbasden wrote:About the only thing that matters about share is how attractive the platform is for developers, and last I saw the WP7 marketplace was growing faster than either iOS or Android did at their launch.
I'm about to start my first mobile app project, and am going with WP7.
Can I ask you why?

A few reasons:

Mildly greater faith that MS will be less evil-overlordy than Apple when it comes to approval and policy (yes, I know how that sounds)
C# over Objective C
Smaller pool of competition
Cheaper -- at least for me -- to start developing
Existing familiarity with .Net
Anecdotal reports that idea->release time is shorter for the novice mobile developer

I know that the smaller pool of competition is largely offset by a smaller install base -- but I don't think completely so.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:52 pm

Thanks Zinc, I appreciate you answering. Best of luck! Mobile is the future!

I can certainly see the appeal of getting in on the ground floor. It definitely crossed my mind as a possible reason you might have chosen the Win 7 platform.

Man, app design for mobile devices is probably fun as hell.

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:24 pm

zinckiwi wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
zinckiwi wrote:
gbasden wrote:About the only thing that matters about share is how attractive the platform is for developers, and last I saw the WP7 marketplace was growing faster than either iOS or Android did at their launch.
I'm about to start my first mobile app project, and am going with WP7.
Can I ask you why?
A few reasons:

Mildly greater faith that MS will be less evil-overlordy than Apple when it comes to approval and policy (yes, I know how that sounds)

C# over Objective C

Smaller pool of competition

Cheaper -- at least for me -- to start developing

Existing familiarity with .Net

Anecdotal reports that idea->release time is shorter for the novice mobile developer
I know that the smaller pool of competition is largely offset by a smaller install base -- but I don't think completely so.

I would bet that there are a lot of developers that developed for Windows Mobile before that started developing for iOS/android that are doing WP7. I have no data on that. I also know that MS is actively courting good developers. Finally, when you create a WP7 app with .net you can also release that app as a windows .exe or web app with relative ease. Microsoft has always been quite good at getting developers to build programs for their OS.

Quaro · Post by **Quaro** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:25 pm

Current marketshare is important because he's getting the phone primarily as an online retailer. To know how your customers experience your site you need to have their device. If your online store software releases a portable app that lets customers browse and purchase with it, it will likely be an iOS or Android app. SunShop has an admin side iOS app at the moment: http://www.turnkeywebtools.com/sunshop/ ... -tool.html" target="_blank but no Android version, for example, which suggests thats the direction they are going.

I think I'd go with iPhone in this particular situation as it covers the widest possible ground that a single device could cover. With Android, a single device doesn't tell you as much since Android is an ecosystem of devices.

The next step up is to get Android phone and the cheapest iPod touch.

If you were an App developer it might make sense to go Windows 7 so you can get in early when there is less competition.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:51 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote:I would bet that there are a lot of developers that developed for Windows Mobile before that started developing for iOS/android that are doing WP7. I have no data on that. I also know that MS is actively courting good developers. Finally, when you create a WP7 app with .net you can also release that app as a windows .exe or web app with relative ease. Microsoft has always been quite good at getting developers to build programs for their OS.

This came up in a discussion on the way home tonight, and is certainly true, in that desktop developers can probably move easily onto the Win7 mobile platform and vice versa, and there are a LOT of developers with Windows experience.

As for MS being good at getting developers, well, a certain amount of that has to do with Windows being the only game in town worth mentioning for a long time. This time they're starting at the bottom, but with a BUCKETFUL of cash to help pave the way.

As should be clear in my previous posts, I personally don't think that it's going to be enough. Nokia does though, otherwise they wouldn't have hitched their wagon to the MS horse contractually.

It's a pretty exciting time for technology and for its users. We haven't seen this level of competition for a long time, and I think it's a good thing. The fact that an open source platform is poised to dominate also helps me be excited about it all.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:41 pm

Quaro wrote:If your online store software releases a portable app that lets customers browse and purchase with it, it will likely be an iOS or Android app. SunShop has an admin side iOS app at the moment: http://www.turnkeywebtools.com/sunshop/ ... -tool.html" target="_blank but no Android version, for example, which suggests thats the direction they are going.

Hmm, very good point. I will have to see if Turnkey will tip their hand regarding Android support. Their existing admin tool is of little interest to me.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:53 pm

GreenGoo wrote:No offense, but yes I do know what I'm talking about. And I continue to educate myself on the matter, as what was true in December of 2010 might not be true in January of 2011, or today. Or tomorrow.

Marketshare is a useful tool. It's probably the easiest way to illustrate popularity and customer satisfaction, but you're right, it's not the only issue. Marketshare trends are also important.

As I said, let's revisit in a year's time.

And while I've got you here, can you answer some of my questions above, as I'd like to continue to read useful data, but am having trouble finding anything substantial or useful on the Win 7 platform.

Marketshare for a *brand new* platform is completely useless as a gauge of platform quality. Given that most consumers are on a 2 year upgrade cycle, immediate market share numbers don't tell you much. As noted, WP7 has a larger marketshare than did Android at this point in its lifecycle.

I don't believe the activation numbers are public at this point. I don't know what they are for sure.

Regardless, I stand by my assertion that the numbers should be meaningless to Kraken. If that phone suits his needs, it is equally as viable as either of the other two platforms.

If you are planning to release a custom store app, though, Quaro has some good points.

Hipolito · Post by **Hipolito** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:19 pm

WebOS has already been mentioned as a possible choice, but I'll go into some detail about my WebOS device: the Palm Pre! I bought mine soon after it was launched. Yes, the Pre has been quite a flop, but that means you might be able to get it quite cheaply. And it comes with a real keyboard that slides out.

My quick opinion of the Pre:

Phone: Great. Clear reception and hardly any dropped calls. However, this may be because my phone service is Sprint, not Verizon, and there aren't many other Sprint users competing for airspace.
Web browser: Good, but no Flash capability and PDFs are mostly unreadable.
Music/podcast player: Good with the right third-party apps.
Still camera: Lousy, blurry, bad. Newer Pre models might have improved resolution, though.
Video camera: Good, which surprises me considering how bad the still camera is.
App store: Thin. Not a reason to get the Pre.
Interface: Swift, hassle-free (but there are fewer features to wade through compared to other smartphones).
Reliability: Good. My first Pre failed a few months in, but the second one has been hardy and I guess I've had it for a year and a half. The battery might be down to about 50% capacity by now. I drop the phone a lot, which makes it glitchy for a week but it then works normally. (Self-healing solid state electronics?)

When I'm eligible for an upgrade in April, I'll probably get one of the more sophisticated smartphones, but I'll be looking at them carefully to make sure they're at least as good as my Pre.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:30 pm

I had a Pre for a bit and really liked the OS. I would have stayed with the phone, but the physical size was simply too small for my hands to use effectively. I'm really interested in the HP tablet based on WebOS.