Stephen King's 'Dark Tower' Set For Film Trilogy, TV Series

[Carpet_pissr]

This is going to be a big steaming heaping pile of shit in regards to being an accurate representation of the books.

Whether or not it can stand alone as a decent film/show on its own merits remains to be seen. Part of me just hopes it fails miserably and in some small way teaches King a lesson about fucking over his readers by giving his blessing to every dumbass decision studios make when adapting his work.

Another perspective is maybe he ONLY cares about his readers, and not readers who may also consume his works in other mediums.

Here are my works, loyal reader. They are lore. Step outside of my actual books, and you are on your own as to the quality you may find.

[Jeff V]

Part of me just hopes it fails miserably and in some small way teaches King a lesson about fucking over his readers by giving his blessing to every dumbass decision studios make when adapting his work.

Yes, I'm sure he will solemnly ponder this the next time he lugs another massive pile of cash to the bank.

If King is not going to be actively involved in the production, then he has little recourse but to surrender creative control as part of the contract. That would result in less time to write new books. Which means less movies based on his work. Which means fewer bags of cash to lug to the bank.

[Smoove_B]

Big article on EW about what's happening:

After many years, and many attempts, a film version of Stephen King’s The Dark Tower is finally getting underway with Idris Elba confirmed as the gunslinger and Matthew McConaughey as the mystical foe known as the man in black.

...

But this first film will not adapt the plot of the first book, The Gunslinger, published in 1982.

“[The movie] starts in media res, in the middle of the story instead of at the beginning, which may upset some of the fans a little bit, but they’ll get behind it, because it is the story,” King says.

Arcel declined to specify which books his movie focus on, but he did offer this clue: “A lot of it takes place in our day, in the modern world.”

And some thoughts on the Roland and Susannah issue:

Arcel acknowledges that skin color actually was an important factor in the relationship between Roland and Susannah, the black amputee he drew into his world from her life in 1964. In the books, she is not thrilled to find herself yanked into another dimension by a grizzled white guy. “Some fans are asking, understandably, ‘What about the racial tension?’” Arcel says. “But as the story progresses that will be made clear, how we’ll deal with all those things.”

[YellowKing]

All I get from that article is a bunch of glossing over fan concerns with "you'll see." "What about the racial tension?" Oh you'll see. "Why are you starting in the middle?" Oh you'll see. "Which books are you adapting?" Oh you'll see.

In other words, you're just changing the entire story willy-nilly and expecting fans to have total faith that you're not going to screw it up.

[Jeff V]

Just don't know how this'll translate.

I'm about 120 pages away from finishing the last book. Parts I absolutely love, parts I hate. If not for a friend I wouldn't have made it past the first book. I enjoy the parts that focus on Roland and his world. The rest? Not so much.

Are you reading the book seven edition that has the second ending in it?

I assume the one with the 2nd ending but I don't know. The book ended, King wrote that I should probably stop reading, then he talked for a little bit and the story went back to Roland.

Right, that would be the second ending.

Sith Lord

Spoiler:

King wrote a second ending with Roland entering the Dark Tower and what he finds there.

Spoiler:

It was a Dunkin Donuts, wasn't it?

[Isgrimnur]

"The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. Bitch."

Well, as casting quickly comes together for the February 2017 Sony picture -- now to be directed by Nikolaj Arcel (A Royal Affair) with production beginning in less than two months -- we’re learning from reliable sources close to the production that Aaron Paul has been cast in The Dark Tower.

Even though this information is coming from inside the production, and we can confirm this, this should still be taken with a grain of salt.

Plus, we did not receive confirmation on who Paul has been cast as. The obvious role would be Eddie Dean, a smartass heroin junkie, future gunslinger, and member of the Roland ka-tet. Not to typecast Paul, who played smartass meth junkie and cook Jesse Pinkman in Breaking Bad (a show of which Paul has said producer Ron Howard was a big fan), but it is hard to imagine the actor as anyone but Eddie. And considering the spot-on casting of Idris Elba as Roland and Matthew McConaughey as the Man in Black, Paul-as-Eddie is a perfect fit.
...
We will have to wait and see, but if Paul is Eddie Dean, and it amounts to more than a reference to “The Prisoner” on a door or in a tarot deck, then we’re potentially looking at some significant diversions from the original King books.

[Smoove_B]

Aaron Paul as Eddie is a great call (if true) but I'm not convinced it would be good enough to save the project.

[Odin]

considering the spot-on casting of Idris Elba as Roland

Spot-on? Really? Because when I look at the covers of the books (which match pretty well with the descriptions in the text), I do not see Idris Elba looking back at me.

[Carpet_pissr]

[YellowKing]

Yeah, that was an asinine statement. As much as I like Idris Elba, he doesn't look anything like Clint Eastwood. There's also a very popular series of Dark Tower comic books (sanctioned by King) which portray Roland as someone completely opposite from Idris Elba. But you know, who cares, Dark Tower fans have only been waiting for an adaptation for decades, who cares what they think.

[Smoove_B]

Tom Taylor allegedly playing the role of Jake. I'm still waiting for confirmation that Danny DeVito will be playing Oy. Regardless, I guess this kid is relatively unknown. He has some acting credits but from the pictures online he certainly looks like Jake...which is nice.

[Odin]

I'm surprised they didn't cast an asian, or maybe a girl, just to be consistently inconsistent.

[msteelers]

Yeah, that was an asinine statement. As much as I like Idris Elba, he doesn't look anything like Clint Eastwood. There's also a very popular series of Dark Tower comic books (sanctioned by King) which portray Roland as someone completely opposite from Idris Elba. But you know, who cares, Dark Tower fans have only been waiting for an adaptation for decades, who cares what they think.

I love the Dark Tower books, but I really don't care what the character looks like. If they nail the essence of the character, nobody will say anything about the actor not being an Eastwood clone.

I'm not exactly familiar with Elba as an actor. I've seen the Thor movies and Pacific Rim. I know he is considered a good actor, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[ImLawBoy]

Yeah, that was an asinine statement. As much as I like Idris Elba, he doesn't look anything like Clint Eastwood. There's also a very popular series of Dark Tower comic books (sanctioned by King) which portray Roland as someone completely opposite from Idris Elba. But you know, who cares, Dark Tower fans have only been waiting for an adaptation for decades, who cares what they think.

I love the Dark Tower books, but I really don't care what the character looks like. If they nail the essence of the character, nobody will say anything about the actor not being an Eastwood clone.

I'm not exactly familiar with Elba as an actor. I've seen the Thor movies and Pacific Rim. I know he is considered a good actor, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think many folks are doubting that Elba is a good enough actor for the role. I think that they're questioning what his casting as a black man will do to the relationship between Roland and Odetta, because racial tension plays a big part of it.

That said, I'm not nearly as worked up over it as most people in this thread seem to be. It may flop, it may turn out great. Either way, it doesn't change the books for me.

[YellowKing]

Yeah it's always walking a tightrope when you criticize the casting of a black guy vs a white guy, because RACISM.

But I love Idris Elba's work - he's a phenomenal actor. This has nothing to do with race, just casting. It's the reason they cast Robert Downey Jr as Tony Stark and not Jonah Hill.

In this instance it's just particularly egregious because the character of Roland has been described in the novels multiple times, he's been portrayed in comic books and book art multiple times, so there's a very clear picture in most readers minds of what he looks like. Then when you add in the fact that his race actually plays a part in the storyline, to go completely opposite of that just boggles the mind.

[McNutt]

In this instance it's just particularly egregious because the character of Roland has been described in the novels multiple times, he's been portrayed in comic books and book art multiple times, so there's a very clear picture in most readers minds of what he looks like. Then when you add in the fact that his race actually plays a part in the storyline, to go completely opposite of that just boggles the mind.

YK, it seems to me that you are bothered more by a black Roland not meshing with the image in your head than by the storyline alterations. How is this different than a black James Bond, which you said you'd like to see Elba play? You've had decades of picturing James Bond as a white guy, so why does changing that image not bother you?

Keep in mind I have never read this series so I have no emotional investment.

[Odin]

How is this different than a black James Bond, which you said you'd like to see Elba play? You've had decades of picturing James Bond as a white guy, so why does changing that image not bother you?

I can't speak for YK, but for me it's very different primarily because Bond has been such a malleable figure over the years. He's changed actors six times, so there's no one "right" look for Bond. The movies aren't even direct adaptations of Fleming's stories in most cases, so there isn't that to point to, either. We're used to Bond changing over the years, and if he changes into a black guy, so what? There's also no implied racial tension in the Bond stories. He's an equal-opportunity killer and ladies' man. As long as he's male, British, and good-looking, it just doesn't seem like a big deal (though I'm sure others will disagree).

This is Roland's first on-screen adaptation, and the casting simply flies in the face of everything we know about the character and the relationships in his ka-tet, some of which were very definitely influenced by race, and it was integral to the way those characters interacted with each other and those around them. If you change the lead character's race, now you have to change all of the race-related elements of the story, and before long it doesn't look much like the story we wanted to see told.

I think it was a dumb move and I'm agin it.

[Jeff V]

YK, it seems to me that you are bothered more by a black Roland not meshing with the image in your head than by the storyline alterations. How is this different than a black James Bond, which you said you'd like to see Elba play? You've had decades of picturing James Bond as a white guy, so why does changing that image not bother you?

Keep in mind I have never read this series so I have no emotional investment.

Remember when Felix turned black?

The thing in this case is Roland is a "wild west" gunslinger pulled from the 1870 book of stereotypes. There's really no indication that he came from Appendix B - Blazing Saddles. As YK does point out, the story is far from racially neutral -- I'm not sure how Susannah (or her psychotic alter-ego) is even close to the same character if she's not the only black character.

Part of the reason I don't like this series is because it deals a lot in stereotypes, and I always find it absurd when "wild west" stereotypes are plucked down in some future sci-fi world. It was ridiculous when Star Trek did it and it made me check my brain in Firefly. Another reason I don't care for the series (I'm still on hiatus around halfway through) is that the characters are well-defined but not at all likable. Time and again they are put in dire circumstance and I just can't muster a single fuck to give about their predicament. The characters are pulled from different periods of time over the last 150 years, each with issues relating to their time. It is just an uncomfortable group to get to know. I can see how this change could result in a more likable posse; but at the expense of changing the story dramatically. Which I might actually enjoy more.

[msteelers]

I guess I just don't expect or need the movies to tell the exact same story from the novels. Besides, I think you can adequately tell their stories without any racial tension between Roland and Susannah. Her character description on Wiki jives with my memory of her from the book.

Initially, her dominant personality is that of Odetta Susannah Holmes, a well-mannered but priggish woman active in the civil rights movement. At times, however, she is taken over by Detta Susannah Walker—murderously psychotic, incredibly crafty, completely unbreakable—whom neither Eddie nor Roland can control.

You can stay true to that character without racial tension.

[Jeff V]

I don't think so...Detta was motivated by racial hatred, and she would lash out at both Roland and Eddie. It doesn't make sense for her to act like that toward Roland if he were black as well.

[Odin]

Ain't been to Morehouse, ain't been to no house.

[YellowKing]

As for the James Bond thing, while it may not be official canon (I don't really have a clue), there's at least a fan justification that "James Bond" is just a codename that can be applied to any Agent 007. In that respect there is a justifiable story reason to make James Bond not be a white guy.

I have no doubt that Elba can pull off Roland, and he'll probably get me to like him despite my inclinations against the casting. However, the feeling I get is that if they're that willing to completely change such an important part of the story, then they have no plans to make a faithful adaptation. And I didn't wait two decades and multiple false starts to get an unfaithful adaptation of one of my favorite series.

If I didn't love this series as much as I do, I wouldn't care. As it stands, it feels like a bit of a slap in the face. And even that one bit of casting I could eventually get over, but it sounds like they're changing a bunch of other shit as well, which just adds to my disappointment.

[McNutt]

Makes sense. I just got from your other posts that the relationship of the Roland's race to the story wasn't as important as to how you pictured him in your head. It now sounds like that's not the case. It does sound like it's pretty integral to the story.

[YellowKing]

Makes sense. I just got from your other posts that the relationship of the Roland's race to the story wasn't as important as to how you pictured him in your head.

That's probably still accurate. Technically they could eliminate the race from the narrative and still tell an adventure story. But they can't erase 20 years of the Roland in my mind. But with both issues holding weight for me, to violate both just adds insult to injury.

I do want to say, however, that despite my irritation on the boards I'm keeping an open mind. I'll watch it, and I hope it exceeds my expectations.

[Odin]

To take another approach: if you acknowledge that, at least in the books, the racial tension is integral to the story, then removing it removes an important element of the story. So my question would be: what makes Idris Elba so awesome, so "spot-on" as the quote above puts it, that it's worth losing an integral element of the story to have him play the part, rather than some other actor with whom it wouldn't be an issue? I mean, all things being equal, Elba probably fits the role as well as any number of other actors and better than many. But all things aren't equal, so why do it? Is this some sort of half-assed backlash against white people playing people of color in so many roles, or is there genuinely some reason that Elba's a better choice than dozens of other actors who were suggested for the role?

[msteelers]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Most of the racial tension happens in The Drawing Of The Three, and you can hit all of the crucial plot points with Roland being black.

I also think anyone who anticipates the movies to closely follow the books will be sorely disappointed. There are so many moments throughout the series that just won't work on screen. I'm not even convinced films are the best format for this story. I think Netflix or HBO would have allowed them to stick closer to the original story, but even that would require major changes.

[Odin]

I'll agree that feature film is a lousy medium for this series unless they're planning to make 6-8 films out of it. I still can't sign on to the idea that Idris Elba was the best possible casting for this role, so disagree we shall.

[JCC]

So long as Eddie remains white, you still have the racial tension. I fail to see the problem. Instead of Detta hating Roland for being white, she can hate him for being, in her view, an Uncle Tom. The Detta racial stuff happens much more directly and personally with Eddie than with Roland anyway.

I, for one, think they should deviate greatly from the books, particularly the mostly horrible final two books. Even with my love for (most of) the series, what makes a great book doesn't always directly translate to the screen. As I get wiser/dumber with age, I have learned to not be so precious about movies/shows sticking so closely to the source material. I find Game of Thrones the show to be much, MUCH better than the books they are based on and have found nearly every deviation from them to be beneficial to the story.

[Carpet_pissr]

oh my.

[Moliere]

[Smoove_B]

I don't want to be "that guy", but why do his clothes look like he just had them dry cleaned? Dude is hundreds of years old...I more or less assumed his clothing would look a bit more used.

[Isgrimnur]

Could be the flashback scenes. Aren't we getting some of the origin story?

[Smoove_B]

Again, he's hundreds of years old. Hundreds. The only "flashback" scenes I'd expect him to have nice neat pressed clothing would be when he was a teenager. Idris might be good as an actor, but I don't quite think he can simultaneously play old grizzled Roland and angsty teen Roland.

[Moliere]

Is that a cell phone in his hand? How could it be a flashback scene? He only had access to cell phones in book 2. Doesn't anybody check for authenticity?

[TiLT]

Heh, my immediate reaction was "shouldn't he wear a wig or something?" I can't imagine it would be easy for Roland to keep his hair so neatly trimmed with the kind of work he does.

[Carpet_pissr]

I don't want to be "that guy", but why do his clothes look like he just had them dry cleaned? Dude is hundreds of years old...I more or less assumed his clothing would look a bit more used.

He's supposed to have never changed clothes in his life? Not sure what his age has to do with the appearance of his clothes?

And I'm not sure what dry cleaner you use, but you might want to switch! Clothes are wrinkled as hell and at least one big ass stain on that vest! Admittedly, his whites are rather white though.

I will also add that he does strike a sharp looking Roland figure, but again, agree with the previous comments about skin color actually making a difference here (compared to the book Roland of course). It's like Tyrion's character being played by Andre the Giant in Game of Thrones. In any event, I do look forward to watching...I guess I don't care much if it's book faithful or not, as long as it's good. Again, much like GoT. Not book faithful in a lot of cases, but still great as its own thing.

[YellowKing]

I've started to come to terms with it, even though I still don't really like it. My distaste is due to my love of the books and the image I've built up in my head of Roland for literally decades - an image directly put there by King's thorough descriptions and directly contradicted by this casting.

It's tempered by the fact that Idris Elba is a bad-ass actor and I really like his film/TV appearances.

This is what REALLY pisses me off though. From writer/producer Akiva Goldsman:

I'm unbelievably proud of it as a collaborator on this enterprise and because I think that he's a great actor and I couldn't be more thrilled that he is likely to play a part... I understand that people who are thoughtful about the storytelling and the racial politics of the storytelling might want to understand how that informs that storytelling, and I respect that and I hear that, and those things are not things we didn't think about or don't think about. The racist assholes should go fuck themselves.

Ok, I know he's not calling anyone who disagrees with the casting a "racist asshole." But he's still implying that it's a major factor and kind of slapping that paint on with a wide brush. People widely criticized Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher because he doesn't match the description of the character in the books at all. But I didn't see people getting slammed for being "height-bigots." Good Lord, almost every time a YA novel is translated to film, there is hand-wringing over casting. Book lovers have been disagreeing with casting choices for eons - I'd just as soon not automatically be thrown under the "racist" bus without carefully couching my opinions.

[ImLawBoy]

I think you're reading too much into it. He's basically saying there are two types of people objecting to the casting. The thoughtful kind that he speaks of first, and the racist assholes. He appreciates the former, he doesn't give a shit about the latter. While we haven't seen the latter here, I'm willing to bet that there are racists out there objecting because they're racist, and I'd also guess that Goldsman has likely heard from fair number of them directly.

[Smoove_B]

He's supposed to have never changed clothes in his life? Not sure what his age has to do with the appearance of his clothes?

That would be silly - clearly his skill for making his own clothes from animal skins came from necessity. Possibly from living for hundreds of years and wearing clothes until they fall apart. Regardless, he doesn't look look like someone that's been wandering for hundreds of years. If they're flashing back to when he was in Gilead (and had access to clean clothes), he'd be a teenager, not old-man Idris. All they'd have to do is dust him up. Is that too much to ask at this point?

[YellowKing]

I think you're reading too much into it. He's basically saying there are two types of people objecting to the casting. The thoughtful kind that he speaks of first, and the racist assholes. He appreciates the former, he doesn't give a shit about the latter. While we haven't seen the latter here, I'm willing to bet that there are racists out there objecting because they're racist, and I'd also guess that Goldsman has likely heard from fair number of them directly.

Perhaps. The way I see it, there are actually three types. The people who care about it from the story perspective, the racist assholes, and then the category I most align with - the ones who don't like that a depiction of the character that has been spelled out in the books/comics is being directly contradicted. His quote to me kind of implicated by omission that the latter category belonged in the "racist assholes" group.

Paul Feig's branding of "sexist" to anyone who didn't like his Ghostbusters casting, though, certainly colored my perception.