Retiring (or bugging out) abroad

[LawBeefaroni]

It was a coup, yes, but almost laughably one of the most peaceful ever. I don’t think anyone died or was injured even. Haven’t looked it up, could be way off, hearsay from the wife

The Carnation Revolution (Portuguese: Revolução dos Cravos), also known as the 25 April (Portuguese: 25 de Abril), was initially a 25 April 1974 military coup in Lisbon which overthrew the authoritarian Estado Novo regime.

...
Its name arose from the fact that almost no shots were fired, and Celeste Caeiro offered carnations to the soldiers when the population took to the streets to celebrate the end of the dictatorship; other demonstrators followed suit, and carnations were placed in the muzzles of guns and on the soldiers' uniforms.[2] In Portugal, 25 April is a national holiday (Portuguese: Dia da Liberdade, Freedom Day) which commemorates the revolution.
...

Only four civilians were shot dead by government forces under the Directorate General of Security, whose personnel involved were later arrested by the MFA for their murders.

[ImLawBoy]

But I believe South America is riddled with ex Nazi scientists. So be warned.

Worth it for the puppet shows, though.

[Scuzz]

I think I could live in a place like Portugal or Spain. I have been there and loved both of them. No place with snow though. But if I actually thought of living there I would feel a need to know the language. I can't imagine living in a foreign country and be dependent on them speaking English to me at all times.

[Madmarcus]

Every time I think about moving overseas (and this thread has got me looking at links again) I come up against the question - move to an expat heavy area to ensure that we can make some English speaking friends or avoid the relatively overpriced and sterile expat areas and find a spot that fits us better.

[Lorini]

I think I could live in a place like Portugal or Spain. I have been there and loved both of them. No place with snow though. But if I actually thought of living there I would feel a need to know the language. I can't imagine living in a foreign country and be dependent on them speaking English to me at all times.

Grab a Pixel phone and there ya are (note: haven't tried this yet)

I would want to learn the language as well. A friend is considering moving to the northern coast of Spain too.

[coopasonic]

The problem is you have to find a bunch of ex-pats for periodic get-togethers, and you'd be away from most of your friends and relatives, and you need to at least try to know the local language.

Being away from relatives is a problem?

[Carpet_pissr]

I think I could live in a place like Portugal or Spain. I have been there and loved both of them. No place with snow though. But if I actually thought of living there I would feel a need to know the language. I can't imagine living in a foreign country and be dependent on them speaking English to me at all times.

FWIW it snows in Spain, depending on which part you are talking about (in fact, one of the first times I was in Madrid, there was a very heavy snowfall). Also snows in Portugal, but much more rare (and very little when it does).

In terms of the language, there is a huge difference between the two countries for non-native speakers. EVERYbody* under a certain age speaks English in Portugal. They start learning English at a very young age. Spain is almost the opposite, and can be in some ways like parts of France, where even if you try to speak the language in earnest, you might get sneered at (this is super-dependent on WHERE of course, in Spain, just like it is in France).

To put it in a different way, as a non-native speaker, you will be in much more linguistic pain in Spain (Ha!) than you will in Portugal. English speaking rates are much much lower, and to give you an idea, they dub their English-speaking movies into Spanish (they don't do this in Portugal). At least they did the last time I went to a movie there, but that was probably around 10 years ago.

So for this comment: "I can't imagine living in a foreign country and be dependent on them speaking English to me at all times." you wouldn't have to worry about that in Spain, because it wouldn't happen! (outside the very touristy places of course).

I remember one instance years ago in Madrid, in a downtown sandwich chain, where a guy in front of me (obviously American) was trying desperately to order a sandwich, and the girl behind the counter was not only not helping him, but being very nasty because either she didn't understand him (doubtful, considering the part of the city I was in, and her age), or she was just being a dick. Finally I stepped in to help him, and she gave me the stink eye as a result (IIRC I said something to her being an ass to the poor bastard, before I ordered for him).

[Octavious]

We have family in a lot of places in Europe, but none of them are ones that speak English. I really don't see me learning German or Serbo Croatian, but man it really is tempting to leave the area at this point. There seems to be more assholes than good people as of late.

[Kasey Chang]

We have family in a lot of places in Europe, but none of them are ones that speak English. I really don't see me learning German or Serbo Croatian, but man it really is tempting to leave the area at this point. There seems to be more assholes than good people as of late.

So a language barrier is an advantage?

[dbt1949]

When I was in Germany a friend of mine who spoke Spanish (and had been a translator in the U S Embassy somewhere) visited Spain. He said they weren't too fond of his brand of Spanish, which I believe was the Mexican style.

[Octavious]

We have family in a lot of places in Europe, but none of them are ones that speak English. I really don't see me learning German or Serbo Croatian, but man it really is tempting to leave the area at this point. There seems to be more assholes than good people as of late.

So a language barrier is an advantage?

In my case the less I talk the safer it is. So ya it may actually be an advantage. In the 20+ years that I've know my wife I've only learned like 5 words of Croatian... I know how to say I'm not wearing pants. That's it. So we actually have her family in Germany, Austria and Bosnia. I'm going to eliminate Bosnia for the whole ethnic cleansing thing AND her family lives on the border of Bosnia. My wife was visiting the town the day the war broke out and they had to bribe their way out of town with a guide who led them through the woods at night. She has some crazy stories from back then.

[Jaymann]

When I was in Germany a friend of mine who spoke Spanish (and had been a translator in the U S Embassy somewhere) visited Spain. He said they weren't too fond of his brand of Spanish, which I believe was the Mexican style.

They're still singed over Cinco de Mayo.

[Jeff V]

In the 20+ years that I've know my wife I've only learned like 5 words of Croatian...

11 years knowing my wife, and my Tagalog is about the same. Funnily enough, most of the words I know are derived from Spanish, which I do not speak. To be fair, what she speaks is a mixture of Tagalog and the provincial languages Cebuano and Visayan. Something like Rosetta Stone could help with Tagalog and her family would better understand me, but I'd still not be able to comprehend what they are saying, so motivation to learn is very low.

[Z-Corn]

I remember one instance years ago in Madrid, in a downtown sandwich chain, where a guy in front of me (obviously American) was trying desperately to order a sandwich, and the girl behind the counter was not only not helping him, but being very nasty because either she didn't understand him (doubtful, considering the part of the city I was in, and her age), or she was just being a dick.

I had the EXACT same thing happen to me by a teenage girl at a Tim Horton's in Saint-Sauveur, Quebec.

It was embarrassing but I got through it because I can speak kitchen French. I ordered my breakfast sandwich by naming every item it was made of.

"un croissant au jambon au œufs au fromage you brat."

We were there on a retreat for my wife's work which was headquartered in Montreal. When I told her coworkers about it they were PISSED.

[Jeff V]

I had waitresses in Montreal that were uncomfortable with English but none militantly belligerent about it. I think one place I had to point to things on the menu, but all in all language wasn't an obstacle.

[Isgrimnur]

When I was in Germany a friend of mine who spoke Spanish (and had been a translator in the U S Embassy somewhere) visited Spain. He said they weren't too fond of his brand of Spanish, which I believe was the Mexican style.

They're still singed over Cinco de Mayo.

When did Spain start caring about Mexico defeating France?

[Jaymann]

When I was in Germany a friend of mine who spoke Spanish (and had been a translator in the U S Embassy somewhere) visited Spain. He said they weren't too fond of his brand of Spanish, which I believe was the Mexican style.

They're still singed over Cinco de Mayo.

When did Spain start caring about Mexico defeating France?

Since the EU, silly,

[Isgrimnur]

Obvs.

[hitbyambulance]

The problem is you have to find a bunch of ex-pats for periodic get-togethers, and you'd be away from most of your friends and relatives, and you need to at least try to know the local language.

i don't get these people who want to relocate to another country and not even want to try to learn the language. get over yourselves!

also, if i were an ex-pat, i think i'd try to _avoid_ the other ex-pats as much as possible. this would absolutely be the case for the 'English-only' enclaves anywhere and the skeezy old impoverished white dudes in SE Asia.

[Anonymous Bosch]

The problem is you have to find a bunch of ex-pats for periodic get-togethers, and you'd be away from most of your friends and relatives, and you need to at least try to know the local language.

i don't get these people who want to relocate to another country and not even want to try to learn the language. get over yourselves!

also, if i were an ex-pat, i think i'd try to _avoid_ the other ex-pats as much as possible. this would absolutely be the case for the 'English-only' enclaves anywhere and the skeezy old impoverished white dudes in SE Asia.

Speaking as a British expatriate, I concur. Suffice to say, learning to communicate fluently in both Americanese and Received Pronunciation (AKA British English) was no mean feat.

[Kraken]

The problem is you have to find a bunch of ex-pats for periodic get-togethers, and you'd be away from most of your friends and relatives, and you need to at least try to know the local language.

i don't get these people who want to relocate to another country and not even want to try to learn the language. get over yourselves!

also, if i were an ex-pat, i think i'd try to _avoid_ the other ex-pats as much as possible. this would absolutely be the case for the 'English-only' enclaves anywhere and the skeezy old impoverished white dudes in SE Asia.

Speaking as a British expatriate, I concur. Suffice to say, learning to communicate fluently in both Americanese and Received Pronunciation (AKA British English) was no mean feat.

You taught me to say "bog roll." That made the whole pandemic worth it.

[Anonymous Bosch]

You taught me to say "bog roll." That made the whole pandemic worth it.

Heh, believe it or not, that's actually a fairly common Britishism, too (well, assuming one isn't looking to come across as uppish).

[Carpet_pissr]

I thank the Brits for giving us the beautiful, multi-purpose “twat”. Even better how they pronounce it vs here: Rhymes with “gnat”. Brilliant!

[Madmarcus]

also, if i were an ex-pat, i think i'd try to _avoid_ the other ex-pats as much as possible. this would absolutely be the case for the 'English-only' enclaves anywhere and the skeezy old impoverished white dudes in SE Asia.

Even just vacationing in Thailand made me want to make sure I wasn't near the skeezy random Westerners.

Expat enclaves seem like they'd be a mixed boat. I dislike the idea, the insularity, and so forth but if we did retire abroad it is vanishingly unlikely that we would arrive knowing the local language. The ability to have some social outlet that doesn't involve the mental effort of translation would seem to be important.

[Jaymann]

You taught me to say "bog roll." That made the whole pandemic worth it.

Heh, believe it or not, that's actually a fairly common Britishism, too (well, assuming one isn't looking to come across as uppish).

Do you ever get in trouble for calling people cunts, or asking if anyone has a fag?

[Anonymous Bosch]

Do you ever get in trouble for calling people cunts, or asking if anyone has a fag?

Nah, because one of my personal favourite Britishisms is "berk."

For the vast majority of Brits, if you call someone a "berk," it's simply an innocuous, informal way of saying you think they are stupid or irritating, akin to "doofus" in the US. But in reality, its true origins lie in the cockney rhyming slang term "Berkshire Hunt" which rhymes with... well, I doubt you need me to spell it out for you. With cockney rhyming slang, you invariably omit the actual rhyming phrase, so the cockney rhyming slang for phone (dog & bone) becomes "dog." Hence "Berkshire Hunt" = "berk." Suffice to say, I always found it amusing that even most Brits remain largely unaware of the somewhat vulgar origins of an otherwise innocuous, informal term.

[em2nought]

Hypothetically, if you are willing to brave tropical conditions, retiring in South America or Southeast Asia can be VERY comfortable most of the time.

There are places in South America at altitude with year round pleasant temperatures if you aren't fond of the heat. Bogota and Quito for instance.

if I were an ex-pat, i think I'd try to avoid the skeezy old impoverished white dudes in SE Asia.

I think I resent that.

[Kasey Chang]

IIRC, Bogota is a bit like Denver... sits high up the mountain.

[Grifman]

Anyone else considering leaving the United States to retire, or any other reason?

It depends on how things go socially and politically here over the next year or two. I don't have any desire to live in another country, and I don't want to jeopardize my SS and Medicare benefits, but I won't rule out fleeing the US if that seems prudent. Wife has Canadian roots and we visited there frequently when we were young, so that would probably be our most realistic option.

Living overseas does not impact your Social Security. Medicare is more problematic - you'd probably need to buy into their national health insurance or get private insurance.

[Grifman]

Regarding language, the Czech Republic is great, at least around Prague. English speakers are a dime a dozen, it is very easy to communicate. Great beer, great food!

[Carpet_pissr]

Bogota is beautiful and amazing. If you like ex-pat enclaves, they have a huge one outside the city apparently. According to a taxi driver, the houses people have built there (mostly Americans) are massive, due to how far the USD goes there. Gated, safe, etc.

72º pretty much all year around. Just gorgeous weather.

I will say that even the locals fear just hopping into cabs that you didn't specifically call. I got almost chewed out by a prospective client I befriended one time when he found out I was just hopping into random cabs. IIRC he said something like "You're insane, even WE don't do that!" (And apparently it wasn't for nothing, as "rogue" taxi kidnapping was a thing not too long ago (maybe still is, dunno).

The only other place in Latin America where I've had clients insist that they take me to and from their office, was in San Salvador. I was in a meeting with a government client and they asked where I was going next. Next meeting was literally 4 blocks away, and I told them I was going to walk since it was a nice day, and I liked walking. They flat out refused due to the way I was dressed I guess (suit and tie), and said there was a good chance that I would get robbed in that short distance (and this was not in some remote location, or sketchy area, it was right downtown in broad daylight, with huge, wide sidewalks).

But those are the exceptions....I've lived and travelled all over Latin America, and never had a problem. I've SEEN problems happen around me, but never been the victim of one.

[Madmarcus]

Not totally out of the blue but my daughter has started looking seriously at getting Canadian citizenship by decent. I don't know how likely it is but her great grandfather (my wife's grandfather) was Canadian.

The bit about Prague is very interesting. Can you get a retirement/non-working visa there by showing you have enough money? I know you can in Portugal and Spain even without purchasing expensive real estate.

[Alefroth]

Not totally out of the blue but my daughter has started looking seriously at getting Canadian citizenship by decent. I don't know how likely it is but her great grandfather (my wife's grandfather) was Canadian.

Since 2009, that has become a lot harder if it isn't your parent that was born in Canada.

[Alefroth]

Regarding language, the Czech Republic is great, at least around Prague. English speakers are a dime a dozen, it is very easy to communicate. Great beer, great food!

What about Slovakia? Do you know if it is similar language wise?

[Jaymann]

Regarding language, the Czech Republic is great, at least around Prague. English speakers are a dime a dozen, it is very easy to communicate. Great beer, great food!

What about Slovakia? Do you know if it is similar language wise?

Might be a tad too close to Russia.

[hepcat]

Regarding language, the Czech Republic is great, at least around Prague. English speakers are a dime a dozen, it is very easy to communicate. Great beer, great food!

What about Slovakia? Do you know if it is similar language wise?

I believe Slovakia just rents a national language from one of their neighbors.

[Alefroth]

Regarding language, the Czech Republic is great, at least around Prague. English speakers are a dime a dozen, it is very easy to communicate. Great beer, great food!

What about Slovakia? Do you know if it is similar language wise?

I believe Slovakia just rents a national language from one of their neighbors.

Hopefully Czechia then.

[Jeff V]

Regarding language, the Czech Republic is great, at least around Prague. English speakers are a dime a dozen, it is very easy to communicate. Great beer, great food!

What about Slovakia? Do you know if it is similar language wise?

I believe Slovakia just rents a national language from one of their neighbors.

Slovak language is a theme, although it's related to Czech there's no guarantee fluency in one means fluency in the other. Unlike the Czech Republic, which is far more urbanized and therefore has more incentive to speak English, Slovakia is largely rural. Ain't never been there, but I imagine a similar dynamic to the Philippines where English is prevalent in the big cities but more sparse in the provinces. I would like to visit that part of the world some day though, half my family has its origin story in Bohemia.

[Alefroth]

Spain is sounding better and better, especially the north coast which has the climate I prefer and isn't as expensive as the sun coasts or big cities. Anyone ever been to Bilbao?

[Madmarcus]

Not totally out of the blue but my daughter has started looking seriously at getting Canadian citizenship by decent. I don't know how likely it is but her great grandfather (my wife's grandfather) was Canadian.

Since 2009, that has become a lot harder if it isn't your parent that was born in Canada.

She's looking into it. From what she said her grandmother, my mother in law, looks like she might be able to claim citizenship by descent (born in '36 to someone who was originally Canadian but it is unclear whether he had been naturalized to the US by that point or if that came later). Then my mother in law would sponsor my daughter. Or perhaps my wife would have to be involved in the chain? It's very early in the looking into it stage but there is at least a chance.

My wife and I are more likely to go the non-working visa route. We don't have the money to do the investment residency in most places (some of the Balkans are really cheap but I'm not sure I want to retire to Montenegro or Albania). Spain has a decent Golden Visa and I agree that northern Spain / Basque country has some appeal.