Diablo 4

[Daehawk]

I looked harder for an old thread this time....probably missed it again...no longer care

[Sudy]

I watched several of the earlier videos. It looks like a a solid compromise between the better points of D2 and D3, specifically with regard to itemization and skills. We also seem to be being given a deep look into the development process early on, and they're actually listening to feedback. E.g. they've dropped mythic-tier items for now in favour of uniques, and are trying to balance uncommons and rares so that they'll actually be worth a look and be more than trash at later levels.

I'm disappointed D3 never got its 2nd expansion. For all the (legitimate) moaning about the sever errors, itemization, and real-money AH early on, they really turned the game around and created something special with the seasons and adventure mode. Its itemization and customizability may stand in stark contrast to D2, but it very much became it's own thing that's great in it's own ways. Having an update that seems to learn from this process is exciting. I hope the Witch Doctor makes a return at some point, even if it isn't until the inevitable D5 in another decade.

[Daehawk]

When it first released I wasn't super happy with D3. I didn't have any problems with that others had but my biggest gripes were the maps and how it was different than D2 so much. I didn't have fun with it for a while. I went back to it months later and over the next couple years I completed it multiple times with different classes. Even got the addons and finished them. Really loved the necromancer as much as I thought I would too. Glad I kept my white box collectors edition.

[Sudy]

There were multiple frustrations, but I remember many of us at the forum got it and still had a blast. I still remember my first legendary that dropped... I think it was midway into levelling my second character. It was worse than a rare. That was disappointing lol.

D3's score is just outstanding. Especially the expansion. It's not the kind of thing I'd listen to outside of the game in most cases, but as a soundtrack it's amazing.

[Daehawk]

Older trailers. Ive wished for decades that Blizzard would make an animated movie.

[Grifman]

I wish someone would make a sci-fi version of Diablo. I'd love to see a game like that.

[Isgrimnur]

[Daehawk]

That reminds me of another game I finished that didn't get good reviews . Set on a spaceship. Cant recall the name.

[Grifman]

Close but not exactly. First off, I want classic ARPG movement, using the mouse, not WASD. For whatever reason, I just can't handle twin stick shooter movement - I'm just not coordinated enough I guess. Plus I don't really see character development, nor a real inventory and looting/selling in game.

Note - at one point, Blizzard was actually working on a sci-fi Diablo, they nicknamed it "Star-blo" as it would have some potential links with Starcraft. But in the end, they decided against it. Wish they had pulled it off.

[Zenn7]

Have you looked into Warhammer 40K: Martyr/Prophecy?

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... y#p2766302

Mouse click to move, ARPG loot, some endgame stuff (I haven't gotten here and not much of a ARPG endgamer sort, so I can't comment on that part). Crafting. Leveling up (you don't seem to learn new abilities, abilities are driven by the weapons/gear you equip).

[Skinypupy]

Have you looked into Warhammer 40K: Martyr/Prophecy?

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... y#p2766302

Mouse click to move, ARPG loot, some endgame stuff (I haven't gotten here and not much of a ARPG endgamer sort, so I can't comment on that part). Crafting. Leveling up (you don't seem to learn new abilities, abilities are driven by the weapons/gear you equip).

Counterpoint: I thought this was the most boring ARPG I have ever played. The areas were dull, the enemy variety was non-existent, and the combat was about as exciting as watching paint dry. Maybe it has greater appeal for those who are already Warhammer fans, but coming in without that background, I found it to be really uninteresting.

[Grifman]

Have you looked into Warhammer 40K: Martyr/Prophecy?

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... y#p2766302

Mouse click to move, ARPG loot, some endgame stuff (I haven't gotten here and not much of a ARPG endgamer sort, so I can't comment on that part). Crafting. Leveling up (you don't seem to learn new abilities, abilities are driven by the weapons/gear you equip).

Counterpoint: I thought this was the most boring ARPG I have ever played. The areas were dull, the enemy variety was non-existent, and the combat was about as exciting as watching paint dry. Maybe it has greater appeal for those who are already Warhammer fans, but coming in without that background, I found it to be really uninteresting.

I have tried it and it is ok but I agree with Skinpuppy regarding many of the issues he raises. I also didn't like the way the lack of weapon/armor variety. Skills were also lackluster IMO.

Still looking, and I have tried almost every attempt at such a game (some just demos, which i am glad because some of these are pretty bad) - Harbinger, Restricted Area, Space Siege, Imperatum, Space Hack, Greed Black Border, Kill Squad, probably a few others. None of these really hits that sweet spot.

Edit - actually, I just remember one game that came pretty close - Alien Shooter 2/Alien Shooter Reloaded. Lots of shooting, lots of loot, the only downside was a simplistic skill tree - just bumps to stats, no real powers. It was the closest I found and it was a lot fun. I wish the developers would make a 3d version rather than sprites, I'd buy that and play it in a second.

[rittchard]

Yeah I have to agree no one seems to have found the magic formula to bring the classic dungeon hack and slash, loot and level feel to a sci-fi theme. I'm not sure why, I'd imagine it would be very popular. I've tried all sorts of variants and they've always lacked something.

[Skinypupy]

Yeah I have to agree no one seems to have found the magic formula to bring the classic dungeon hack and slash, loot and level feel to a sci-fi theme. I'm not sure why, I'd imagine it would be very popular. I've tried all sorts of variants and they've always lacked something.

I got thinking about this last night. I've played probably every "big name" ARPG over the years. Titan Quest, Grim Dawn, Van Helsing, Torchlight, Victor Vran, Path of Exile, Book of Demons, the Warhammer ARPG's, etc, etc. Yet I've probably spent less time with all of those games combined as I have with either D2 or D3.

For me, Blizzard has perfected the formula in a way that no one else can even come close to matching. Their combination of gothic fantasy style, art, combat, music, and level progression is about as perfect as it gets, imo.

I would love to see something in a sci-fi setting. A Star-iablo game would be pretty awesome, I think. Take a couple classes from each of the Starcraft races and have them stomp through that universe using the same mechanics.

[Sudy]

I've never found anything else that really scratched the itch. Victor Vran came close as its movement abilities felt great and broke the mold, but they gameplay got boring 15-20 hours in.

I came to this D3 season way late, and I'm about bored out of my skull after having gotten two characters to 70 and paragon 550. But it still entertained me for 30+ hours again... it must be the fifth or sixth season I've played this deep. And the next season was just announced: followers are getting all item slots, and select item bonuses will also apply to your character. What's more, this isn't just a seasonal feature--it's permanent.

What Path of Diablo's (modded D2 private server) new season launches in a couple weeks, I imagine I'll be playing that too.

[Grifman]

I liked the Van Helsing games, played through all of them, and I enjoyed Grim Dawn but never finished it as it seemed to drag on a bit - the Van Helsing's got the length just right for me. But I still wish I could get a sci-fi Diablo. That's one of my unmade dream games.

[Sudy]

I've tried to start them a few times but the combat just hasn't grabbed me. I've also been confused by various reviews and recommendations contradicting each other about whether I should play the original releases or the reworked package.

I agree about a sci-fi ARPG. There've been a ton of attempts over the years, but nothing memorable than I can recall. I think it really needs to be science-fantasy, or at least offer lush and interesting environments. I don't want to spend a whole game rattling around a silver metallic ship.

[Chraolic]

I agree about a sci-fi ARPG. There've been a ton of attempts over the years, but nothing memorable than I can recall.

I'd say they've been pretty awful, to be honest. I think it's mostly the skills that are lacking, stuff like Whirlwind and Corpse Blast don't exactly translate well to a cyborg with a laser rifle.

[Sudy]

Yeah, I was thinking similarly... I haven't played a lot of them so I can't comment directly, but it seems like you could still pull off something interesting with some creativity. Or perhaps use the theme to make the game engaging in other ways. Even in Diablo, obviously, you notice the patterns and repetition in the skills and runes (in the case of D3).

[Grifman]

I agree about a sci-fi ARPG. There've been a ton of attempts over the years, but nothing memorable than I can recall.

I'd say they've been pretty awful, to be honest. I think it's mostly the skills that are lacking, stuff like Whirlwind and Corpse Blast don't exactly translate well to a cyborg with a laser rifle.

There's a lot of stuff you could do - various types of shields, stealth fields, teleportation, grenades/mines, weapons with different types of attacks or frequency of firing, robots/drones, clones, etc. Heck you could almost take the Van Helsing series and use sci-fi graphics and many of the skills would transfer well from regular guns to beam weapons. Add something like The Force or Mass Effect biotics for "space magic" and you'd be set.

Which reminds me, a Star Wars ARPG would be be great - Jedi, bounty hunter, rebel soldier, etc. That would be pretty cool.

[Chraolic]

There's a lot of stuff you could do - various types of shields, stealth fields, teleportation, grenades/mines, weapons with different types of attacks or frequency of firing, robots/drones, clones, etc. Heck you could almost take the Van Helsing series and use sci-fi graphics and many of the skills would transfer well from regular guns to beam weapons. Add something like The Force or Mass Effect biotics for "space magic" and you'd be set.

Which reminds me, a Star Wars ARPG would be be great - Jedi, bounty hunter, rebel soldier, etc. That would be pretty cool.

Oh, I agree that it's totally possible to make a compelling sci-fi game, but so far that's not what we've gotten in the ARPG genre. Generally it'll just be shoot everything with gun and then you get 5% more pewpewpew when you level up a skill.

And a Star Wars ARPG would be really cool. I don't know why no-one's done that, there's got to be like 5-10 million copies sold right there just based on the concept.

[Butterknife]

Diablo 3 sucked in so many ways, so here's what they'd have to fix from it to make Diablo 4 something I would buy:

1) Get rid of the melodrama. Looks like they may actually be doing this, I saw a boss fight just start up without a long-winded blah blah blah about evil beforehand. It was painful the first time you hear it, but by the 5th time I was ready to strangle the game designers. Adventure mode only partly fixed this, you still had a long pause before fighting a boss as they loaded the actual battle arena.

2) Make the maps random again. Most of the maps weren't random. They would randomize where on a map they put a particular dungeon, but the levels themselves were all the same. This kills replayability (looking at you, Grim Dawn!) because when you're working on your 4th character you feel like the whole game is deja vu. Randomized maps means everything is randomized, like Path of Exile or (not as well done) Diablo 2.

3) Fix the loot system. I doubt they will do this, but the best items in the game need to 1) Drop (not be crafted or purchased from other players) so that playing the game is fun and 2) Be Uniques or Rares, not Sets. The problem with Sets as the best items is that it kills build diversity. What if I want to have a pet and a warcry and a spell or whatever? Too bad! The set you are working on forces you to use whichever skills give you +40,000% to that skill, even if you like using some other skill more. And the best way to get sets is to play a "season" -- i.e., a list of chores that you have to fully complete, otherwise you can't get the full set. I want to determine how I play, how I build my character, how much I play, and when -- thank you very much.

4) Fix the skill system. Diablo 3 went out on a limb by letting us change which skills we were using at any time. It kind of worked, but the reason I played Diablo 2 so much more is because I would find a cool staff that would work for an Ice Sorceress, and think "Whoa, I need to make an Ice Sorceress to try out this cool staff!" Then an hour later I would find an item that made Blood Golems cool and think "Whoa, I need to try out a Blood Golem build!" etc. Fast forward a thousand hours. So that's half the problem. I only played each character in Diablo 3 through twice, and the second time through I realized that there wasn't any difference to the first time and never finished it. You only play Diablo 3 with each character once, essentially, and then you are done. Another big problem with the skill system is that skills don't have levels any more, so you can't put a few points into a skill, or level a skill into a powerhouse. A monk's lightning punch just does the same lightning punch, and you can't make it better except by finding loot. You don't have a guaranteed source of improvement like the skill system in Grim Dawn.

[$iljanus]

I agree about a sci-fi ARPG. There've been a ton of attempts over the years, but nothing memorable than I can recall.

I'd say they've been pretty awful, to be honest. I think it's mostly the skills that are lacking, stuff like Whirlwind and Corpse Blast don't exactly translate well to a cyborg with a laser rifle.

There's a lot of stuff you could do - various types of shields, stealth fields, teleportation, grenades/mines, weapons with different types of attacks or frequency of firing, robots/drones, clones, etc. Heck you could almost take the Van Helsing series and use sci-fi graphics and many of the skills would transfer well from regular guns to beam weapons. Add something like The Force or Mass Effect biotics for "space magic" and you'd be set.

Which reminds me, a Star Wars ARPG would be be great - Jedi, bounty hunter, rebel soldier, etc. That would be pretty cool.

I’d buy your game!

I’d also like a modern day ARPG with smoke bombs,C4, air and artillery strikes, destructible environments and all sorts of weaponry including...RPGs!

[Blackhawk]

Just please don't make a sci-fi ARPG where, for some unknown reason, everyone uses swords. Glowy tech katanas, sure, but swords.

[Skinypupy]

Diablo 3 sucked in so many ways, so here's what they'd have to fix from it to make Diablo 4 something I would buy:

1) Get rid of the melodrama. Looks like they may actually be doing this, I saw a boss fight just start up without a long-winded blah blah blah about evil beforehand. It was painful the first time you hear it, but by the 5th time I was ready to strangle the game designers. Adventure mode only partly fixed this, you still had a long pause before fighting a boss as they loaded the actual battle arena.

Huh. I've played D3 a ton on multiple platforms (PC, PS4, and Switch) and haven't ever noticed any sort of "melodrama" or significant pauses before boss fights. Maybe I've just blocked something out?

2) Make the maps random again. Most of the maps weren't random. They would randomize where on a map they put a particular dungeon, but the levels themselves were all the same. This kills replayability (looking at you, Grim Dawn!) because when you're working on your 4th character you feel like the whole game is deja vu. Randomized maps means everything is randomized, like Path of Exile or (not as well done) Diablo 2.

4) Fix the skill system. Diablo 3 went out on a limb by letting us change which skills we were using at any time. It kind of worked, but the reason I played Diablo 2 so much more is because I would find a cool staff that would work for an Ice Sorceress, and think "Whoa, I need to make an Ice Sorceress to try out this cool staff!" Then an hour later I would find an item that made Blood Golems cool and think "Whoa, I need to try out a Blood Golem build!" etc. Fast forward a thousand hours. So that's half the problem. I only played each character in Diablo 3 through twice, and the second time through I realized that there wasn't any difference to the first time and never finished it. You only play Diablo 3 with each character once, essentially, and then you are done. Another big problem with the skill system is that skills don't have levels any more, so you can't put a few points into a skill, or level a skill into a powerhouse. A monk's lightning punch just does the same lightning punch, and you can't make it better except by finding loot. You don't have a guaranteed source of improvement like the skill system in Grim Dawn.

Totally disagree on this one. I've never considered switching builds simply because a new weapon dropped, and can't really imagine a scenario where I would.

Granted, I also don't play the super high-level, end-game stuff. I typically run through the first 2-3 levels of reward tiers for each season and call it good.

[Sudy]

Diablo 3 sucked in so many ways, so here's what they'd have to fix from it to make Diablo 4 something I would buy:

1) Get rid of the melodrama. Looks like they may actually be doing this, I saw a boss fight just start up without a long-winded blah blah blah about evil beforehand. It was painful the first time you hear it, but by the 5th time I was ready to strangle the game designers. Adventure mode only partly fixed this, you still had a long pause before fighting a boss as they loaded the actual battle arena.

Lol, has anyone actually played the campaign since adventure mode was introduced? About all I remember is that Cain bought it like a wet kleenex. There was definitely a tonal change from the first two games, though their stories didn't really have much in the way of depth, either... they were all atmosphere. I definitely like what I've seen of D4 so far though... it seems more like the tone of D2 with some of the gloss of D3. The pause in adventure mode is definitely annoying... I presume it's some kind of engine limitation. What bothers me the most are the repeated hero/follower lines. I could tolerate them if there were at least a cooldown on the same one repeating. Also, the audio logs... while I love the voice acting and they do add some colour, they usually seem pretty disconnected from what you're doing. I guess an audio bestiary is better than a text one I won't read, though.

2) Make the maps random again. Most of the maps weren't random. They would randomize where on a map they put a particular dungeon, but the levels themselves were all the same. This kills replayability (looking at you, Grim Dawn!) because when you're working on your 4th character you feel like the whole game is deja vu. Randomized maps means everything is randomized, like Path of Exile or (not as well done) Diablo 2.

Yeah, that bugged me so much from the very beginning. D3's world is gorgeous (if overly lush), but if they'd even just mirrored some of the set pieces I'd have been so much happier. D2 obviously didn't have much deep variation, but that was 20 years ago... I imagine they could do so much better now.

3) Fix the loot system. I doubt they will do this, but the best items in the game need to 1) Drop (not be crafted or purchased from other players) so that playing the game is fun and 2) Be Uniques or Rares, not Sets. The problem with Sets as the best items is that it kills build diversity. What if I want to have a pet and a warcry and a spell or whatever? Too bad! The set you are working on forces you to use whichever skills give you +40,000% to that skill, even if you like using some other skill more. And the best way to get sets is to play a "season" -- i.e., a list of chores that you have to fully complete, otherwise you can't get the full set. I want to determine how I play, how I build my character, how much I play, and when -- thank you very much.

Actually from what I've seen, that's exactly what they're doing. The endgame will no longer evolve around sets that grant you a game-breaking "+10,000,000 to skill". They're bringing back uniques, and legendary bonuses aren't tied to a single item any longer. The legendary effects are what D3 got right, IMO. Some of them went too far, and others are next to useless... but they're far more interesting than most bonuses you found in D2. Now, these things don't need to be coupled to items. But it definitely made the treasure hunt fun. What was wrong was the balance. But sets, yeah... sets got boring fast. On the other hand, most of D2s sets were useless by the time you acquired them.

4) Fix the skill system. Diablo 3 went out on a limb by letting us change which skills we were using at any time. It kind of worked, but the reason I played Diablo 2 so much more is because I would find a cool staff that would work for an Ice Sorceress, and think "Whoa, I need to make an Ice Sorceress to try out this cool staff!" Then an hour later I would find an item that made Blood Golems cool and think "Whoa, I need to try out a Blood Golem build!" etc. Fast forward a thousand hours. So that's half the problem. I only played each character in Diablo 3 through twice, and the second time through I realized that there wasn't any difference to the first time and never finished it. You only play Diablo 3 with each character once, essentially, and then you are done. Another big problem with the skill system is that skills don't have levels any more, so you can't put a few points into a skill, or level a skill into a powerhouse. A monk's lightning punch just does the same lightning punch, and you can't make it better except by finding loot. You don't have a guaranteed source of improvement like the skill system in Grim Dawn.

I'd really prefer a balance. I don't want to invest dozens of hours every time I want to try a new build. Nor do I want to be locked out of the best content because I didn't study for two hours before committing my skill points, or there was a nerf. But you're right, there's no point in playing the same class twice in D3, outside of seasons. At the rate I play, that's suited me fine, because I usually only play one or two a season (and I don't play every season), so by the time I come back around to a class it's a fresh experience for me. But, I definitely miss that feeling from D2 when an item drop makes you want to try a new class/build. Again, D4 "seems" to be aiming for a middleground here, but we'll have to see.

[Blackhawk]

D3 never quite clicked for me the way that D2 did, but it didn't suck. I put enough hours into it and had enough fun to more than get my money's worth.

What I always disliked wasn't that I'd find an ice staff and not want to build an ice sorceress, but that the way seasons worked I'd find an ice staff, put it in my stash, and my next character would be isolated from the stash. The stash was a built-up resource that was rarely ever used.

Lol, has anyone actually played the campaign since adventure mode was introduced?

Yes. Adventure mode is nice if you want to power level, but if you want to enjoy the journey, it is kind of bland. It's very Blizzard, and it is the same philosophy that made WoW so tedious - get to the end game as quickly as possible so as to get straight to the grind.

[Sudy]

Oh, definitely. I was just teasing that I've never had the desire to go back to the campaign after having played through it several times following launch. Adventure mode is certainly soulless... I just consider it to be "arcade mode" and it's the only thing that holds any interest for me at this point. It might be different if there were actually choices to be made in the single-player game, or there was a distinct "end" in terms of character progression, and you don't just roll over into a new difficult level. I'm actually not sure how that works now; I presume they just try to steer you into adventure mode.

When I'm levelling a character for a new season, I actually always play 1-70 solo so I can slow down the pace and relearn all the runes. I should try doing it in the campaign for once.

[El Guapo]

What this video is really doing is making me eager for a remastered version of Smash TV.

[Skinypupy]

Oh, definitely. I was just teasing that I've never had the desire to go back to the campaign after having played through it several times following launch.

I usually play through the campaign with a new character about once a year.

[TheMix]

Diablo 3 sucked in so many ways, so here's what they'd have to fix from it to make Diablo 4 something I would buy:

1) Get rid of the melodrama.

2) Make the maps random again.

3) Fix the loot system.

4) Fix the skill system.

Huh. I feel like we played different games...

1) No idea what you are referring to. I do get a touch inpatient waiting for the Skeleton King, but most of the delays are only a few seconds. Certainly not enough to bother me.

2) Granted some of them are pretty standard because they have to be (like the graveyard), most of the maps are randomized. At least in Adventure mode. I haven't played the Campaign in a while.

3) Wha? This one really had me scratching my head. Were these comments from when it initially came out? (Purchase from other players???) Almost all of the loot comes from drops. There is a new crafted set that sometimes gets incorporated now in top end builds. And there is the gambling with shards. But I'd say 90% comes from drops. As for collecting set pieces, the only "grind" is getting to 3 pieces. With the ring, you can then get the 4pc bonus. That's usually enough to bump the difficulty up to T6-8. At that point the gear starts dropping often enough that getting more set pieces becomes pretty easy. And if you don't want to play with a set, you can now use the "new" gem to get bonuses from just equipping legendaries. And for many classes, the top builds are actually built around the gem and not the sets.

4) I don't disagree with the assessment that you only need one of each class. Though I actually have two in order to help with gear storage. But for me the reason to keep trying things is the sets. I have tried every set with every class. And in some cases there is actually more than one build for a given set. Even your examples have me scratching my head. I've definitely gotten a piece of gear (new weapon, last piece of a set, etc) that has caused me to change up my build to try something new.

I mean, if you aren't enjoying it, then you shouldn't play it. But if I used those arguments, I'd only have 50 hours in Borderlands 2 instead of 1000+. After all, it's the same maps, the same skills, the same game. The point is to try new things, to keep increasing the difficulty, to find the challenges to overcome.

[Butterknife]

I mean, if you aren't enjoying it, then you shouldn't play it. But if I used those arguments, I'd only have 50 hours in Borderlands 2 instead of 1000+. After all, it's the same maps, the same skills, the same game. The point is to try new things, to keep increasing the difficulty, to find the challenges to overcome.

I'm glad you like the game. I played it a ton as well, so I feel that my arguments are plenty valid. But what you're looking for in a game and what I look for are quite obviously different. To me the challenge of the game is never the draw -- I don't like challenging or difficult games. For action-RPGs in particular what I enjoy the most is trying out alts. I like other things about these games as well -- looting, the visceral feel of combat, becoming powerful. But I do want to be able to just steamroll stuff with the "perfect" build, which I am always chasing. That's why I'm all about min-maxing, alts, and finding the "perfect" loot.

Diablo 3 just doesn't do what I look for in action-RPGs as well as the alternatives, that's why I've "only" played it about 264 hours, according to Battle.net. But I bounced off of it pretty hard the first time I played, and it was a huge letdown. I've played it a lot since they fixed stuff, but I still think that other action-RPGs do what I particularly like better than Diablo 3 does, so unless they fix the stuff that appeals to me (outlined above) I'm going in to Diablo 4 more cautiously.

[JCC]

I prefer Diablo 2 to Diablo 3 and I certainly played a lot more of Diablo 2 than Diablo 3. I think D2 was just a better game. However, I still think D3 was pretty great and fun in its own right.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Have you looked into Warhammer 40K: Martyr/Prophecy?

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... y#p2766302

Mouse click to move, ARPG loot, some endgame stuff (I haven't gotten here and not much of a ARPG endgamer sort, so I can't comment on that part). Crafting. Leveling up (you don't seem to learn new abilities, abilities are driven by the weapons/gear you equip).

Counterpoint: I thought this was the most boring ARPG I have ever played. The areas were dull, the enemy variety was non-existent, and the combat was about as exciting as watching paint dry. Maybe it has greater appeal for those who are already Warhammer fans, but coming in without that background, I found it to be really uninteresting.

I have tried it and it is ok but I agree with Skinpuppy regarding many of the issues he raises. I also didn't like the way the lack of weapon/armor variety. Skills were also lackluster IMO.

Still looking, and I have tried almost every attempt at such a game (some just demos, which i am glad because some of these are pretty bad) - Harbinger, Restricted Area, Space Siege, Imperatum, Space Hack, Greed Black Border, Kill Squad, probably a few others. None of these really hits that sweet spot.

Edit - actually, I just remember one game that came pretty close - Alien Shooter 2/Alien Shooter Reloaded. Lots of shooting, lots of loot, the only downside was a simplistic skill tree - just bumps to stats, no real powers. It was the closest I found and it was a lot fun. I wish the developers would make a 3d version rather than sprites, I'd buy that and play it in a second.

Have you ever tried Drox Operative? Because that's about the only decent sci-fi ARPG I recall:



It's essentially a spaceship ARPG. For movement, you can use WASD or the like, or you can hold down the left mouse button to guide the ship where you want it to go. For weapons, you can left- or right-click on an enemy, or you can press a hotkey for the weapon. There are also boosters that you can use (the Drox Operative equivalent of potions), and they can be activated from hotkeys or the right mouse button as well. Better yet, if you dislike any of the default controls, then you can reconfigure them in any way you like. As I recall, there's some interesting loot and energy management involved in playing the game successfully. Initially, it does have something of a learning curve, but nothing terribly onerous for anyone familiar with ARPGs. It is an older indie title though, so I dunno if it's worth the full asking price. But it's often discounted to $4.99 during sales, and it's at least worth grabbing at those prices.

Here's a decent video review that aptly sums it up:



But if the older graphics and UI of the original game put you off, Drox Operative 2 has been in early-access for the better part of a year.

[Grifman]

Have you ever tried Drox Operative? Because that's about the only decent sci-fi ARPG I recall:

Yep, have it and played it. But that's not what I am talking about. I'm talking about an isometric person/cyborg/clone/whatever based ARPG, not a spaceship ARPG. I want a guy carrying a laser/plasma rifle/pistols/SMGs, miniguns, rocket/grenade launchers, going around using armor, shields, drones, mines, grenades, deployable turrets, orbital bombardment (from his orbiting ship), teleportation, clones, robots, mind control, flashbangs, smoke grenades, cloaking, hacking, telekinesis, light sabers, etc.

[$iljanus]

Have you ever tried Drox Operative? Because that's about the only decent sci-fi ARPG I recall:

Yep, have it and played it. But that's not what I am talking about. I'm talking about an isometric person/cyborg/clone/whatever based ARPG, not a spaceship ARPG. I want a guy carrying a laser/plasma rifle/pistols/SMGs, miniguns, rocket/grenade launchers, going around using armor, shields, drones, mines, grenades, deployable turrets, orbital bombardment (from his orbiting ship), teleportation, clones, robots, mind control, flashbangs, smoke grenades, cloaking, hacking, telekinesis, light sabers, etc.

Same here. Give me some Starship Troopers (preferably the Heinlein power armor version), some space marines (small case or 40K ones) or just a merc team in the future. Don’t need to pilot a ship but would be happy to hijack one or call upon a ship for fire support.

[Hyena]

Have you ever tried Drox Operative? Because that's about the only decent sci-fi ARPG I recall:

Yep, have it and played it. But that's not what I am talking about. I'm talking about an isometric person/cyborg/clone/whatever based ARPG, not a spaceship ARPG. I want a guy carrying a laser/plasma rifle/pistols/SMGs, miniguns, rocket/grenade launchers, going around using armor, shields, drones, mines, grenades, deployable turrets, orbital bombardment (from his orbiting ship), teleportation, clones, robots, mind control, flashbangs, smoke grenades, cloaking, hacking, telekinesis, light sabers, etc.

Same here. Give me some Starship Troopers (preferably the Heinlein power armor version), some space marines (small case or 40K ones) or just a merc team in the future. Don’t need to pilot a ship but would be happy to hijack one or call upon a ship for fire support.

This conversation (and others in this thread) have me reminded of the odd mix of feelings I had for Hellgate. It was made by the people from Diablo, and I assumed it would be a similar style of game. I got so pumped. I always wondered why no one had ever made a isometric sci-fi version, but finally here it was! The first screenshot I saw was of a Templar in a top-down sequence, ala Diablo, which hyped me up even more! Only afterwards did I realize what I had seen was actually of a minigame within the game, where you control a squad of Templars, and that the game itself was a first-person shooter. I was so bummed, but I bought it anyway. So much lost potential.

[Sudy]

I didn't play Hellgate at launch, but I was excited to try it when it re-launched in single-player mode on Steam a couple years ago. It was... so bad. Yeah, I get it was like 11 years after release. But I think that might be the only game I've ever had refunded through Steam.

[Jolor]

I have played the original HGL and enjoyed it contrary to the majority of the reviews. I've also heard that the relaunched HG:L was abysmal in comparison to the original. Go figure.

The only "diablo-esque" game in space that I recall playing was Space Hack. It was pretty bland but enjoyed it enough to have finished it.

As far as the discussion around D4 goes, I didn't really enjoy D3 compared to D2 or D1. I will likely hold off on D4 and settle for yelling at the undead neighbourhood children to get out of my Hell-O tree.

[hepcat]

I want a Crusader: No Remorse reboot.