Shadow Empire

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Paradroid
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Shadow Empire

Post by Paradroid »

Shadow Empire by VR Designs (Decisive Campaigns) and published by Slitherine just released on Steam.

This looks unusual. Kind of a survival/colony management game but played on a hex-based map. I recommend watching the trailer. I haven't been following it closely so I don't know a lot about it but it has the potential to be really good. Oh, and apparently there's a PBEM system, but currently the Steam page only says single player.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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I watched some videos on Youtube about this game. I have a feeling it's too complicated for my feeble mind.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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dbt1949 wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:04 pm I watched some videos on Youtube about this game. I have a feeling it's too complicated for my feeble mind.
It actually isn't too complicated. I would say close to Advanced Wars in complexity. It quickly rose to the ranks of my favorite wargame and is a game I can see playing for years, given the variability and the sheer number of cool random generated maps. I love the idea of choosing a desert planet and pretending I am in Dune, or jumping into a brutal lava planet. Vic is also adding more stuff (air forces soon) and will support this game for years.

If you all haven't taken a look and love wargames, this is worth diving into.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Isgrimnur »

Does it have nerve stapling?
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Paradroid »

baelthazar wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:36 pm It quickly rose to the ranks of my favorite wargame and is a game I can see playing for years, given the variability and the sheer number of cool random generated maps.
Jesus, is it really that good? Hmmm, that's put it several steps further up my wishlist then. I wonder how long I can hold out? :D
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by malchior »

I played it as well. A word of warning that it has a steep learning curve, it looks very "low tech", but it has serious depth. It is a incredibly interesting mix of 4x meets Norm Kroger's Operational Art of War meets Grand Strategy w/ a SciFi theme.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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dbt1949 wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:04 pm I watched some videos on Youtube about this game. I have a feeling it's too complicated for my feeble mind.
Me too. I had seen articles on it but somehow it just hasn't floated my boat.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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I picked this up on a whim when it came out on Matrix's site, and I've been loving it so far. It's got some clunky UI elements, but a ton of depth, and a lot of replayability. Had a few bugs when it came out, but patches are very regular have cleaned things up a lot and added new features.

It does have a pretty hefty learning curve, but a lot of it's depth are the type of things you can ignore for the most part until you want to delve a little more deeply into how things work.

I think the single most important thing to come to grips with is the logistics/supply system. A lot of your choices from turn to turn will touch on getting supplies to your troops. It's not hard to understand, but it's very easy to lose thousands of troops to starvation if you aren't paying attention to it.

Happy to answer any questions for anyone starting to dive in.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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Sepiche wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:17 pm Happy to answer any questions for anyone starting to dive in.
I've been trying to get a feel for it from Youtube videos, but all the ones that say "here's why this game is a masterpiece" or words to that effect, are generally just play throughs that never explain why it's so good.

I guess my main question is: how much of a war game is it? The reason I first became interested was it's supposed, or at least I'd heard, to be much more than just a wargame. If it's mainly just a war game in a post-apoc setting I'd be less interested (but will probably still get it at some point). But if the other elements are well represented then it will remain at the top of my wishlist.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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The best way to describe it is a wargame with some heavy decision-making RPG overlaid on top. Everything you do is going to be to fuel you eventual conquest of the entire planet, but you can't ignore the "butter" and focus only on the "guns." If you do that, you will get riots, rebels, and greatly ability to expand. So you have to create power plants, build hospitals and schools, raise the culture level of the people in your cities and attract local "savages" from the wilderness into your culture. You can also woo and even diplomatically annex minor powers, which is by far more efficient than conquering everything.

But make no mistake, a lot of what you do is designing new weapons of war (you have to make interesting choices of firepower, armor, cost, weight, motor power/speed) and creating nice unit hierarchies to support and supply a ever-growing army. I tend to like having a tech advantage, where my smaller-sized forces can square off based on better armor and weapons. The supply modeling is tricky, and I still have some trouble getting it. I managed to create my first giant sized-army, but my advance ground to a halt has my economy scrambled to get the supplies needed to move multiple units of 20K men forward. It is part of the fun, but also a big part of the learning curve.

My favorite thing is the planet variety. I had one, which I lovingly referred to as "Planet Vietnam" where the planet was covered in a thick and humid jungle. Giant (as in car-sized) vicious bugs crawled everywhere, attacking my units as we pushed outward. Water was plentiful, but metal was harder to find and, despite the lush vegetation, none of it was edible (so we had to plant terran crops). It was a very different game from the desert planet, where every drop of water was precious, farms were in water-guzzling but efficient domes, and oil and metal littered the ground. There was no life and units required stillsuits environmental suits to survive.

And these are just two of literal millions of planet types.

If you want a good overview, go see DasTactics videos. They are what really got me into the game. He also provides an excellent learning guide.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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You're starting to convince me... :D
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Paradroid »

Baelthazar, thank you for the write-up, I appreciate it. It does sound like what I'm after; I understand warfare figures heavily but as long as the other elements aren't just an afterthought - which they clearly aren't from your description - then I'm 100% sold. It's a matter of when, not if, now. And since I'm on the sauce this evening, "when" is probably in about 30 minutes. :D
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Re: Shadow Empire

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Paradroid wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:04 pm And since I'm on the sauce this evening, "when" is probably in about 30 minutes. :D
You'll have to be more specific... :D
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Paradroid »

Ha! I weaned myself from my condiment dependency a long time ago. Now I'm all grown up and currently drinking Brewdog IPA, one of the few IPAs I enjoy. Later I may well switch to Famous Grouse, which is pretty damn nice for a cheap(ish) blended Scotch.

In other news, I don't think I even made it to 30 mins... :oops:
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Re: Shadow Empire

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Alright, this is looking really, really good. I can't remember the last time I was so excited about a new strategy game in fact. I've only put in three hours so far so I'm very much still learning, but it's this learning process that I'm really enjoying. Normally with a strategy game I can't wait to know it all and just get around to playing competently, but Shadow Empire definitely has that elusive joy of discovery element to it.

It's quite remarkable how layered the game is but how well the systems work together. Once you get used to the, ah, "old fashioned" interface, you start to realise how one minor decision over here will affect a major operation you have going on over there. Deciding on your next move, you have a variety of reports to flip through to see what impacts it might have, or whether you think you can sustain the necessary construction, for example. It's much more elegant than it seems on the surface. Any problem you face can be solved with the tools the game gives you, and it's up to you to figure out how exactly to do it.

Brilliantly, from what I've read and seen, although the AI doesn't play by quite the same rules, the intuitive stuff applies. Destroy an opponent's farms, for example, and his armies really will starve.

Even the music is excellent. It's comprised of a rather good dark ambient soundtrack (I must remember to look up the musician) that suits the mood perfectly. I just can't wait to get further into this. I'm even considering writing an AAR!

Question for those more experienced than me: How can I tell how many workers I have available for construction projects? I can see all the items I need on the panel on the left, but I can't for the life of me figure out where to see worker numbers.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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Paradroid wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:41 pm Question for those more experienced than me: How can I tell how many workers I have available for construction projects? I can see all the items I need on the panel on the left, but I can't for the life of me figure out where to see worker numbers.
I've figured this one out. On the bottom panel, you have to click on the zone tab which is on the far left of it. One of the stats that appear at the bottom of the screen shows the number of available workers. In my current game that's one of the very few resources I have plenty of!

The beautiful soundtrack is by an artist collaboration called Tempest for an Angel, and can be heard on Youtube.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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Can anyone tell me why my militia units don't get replacement vehicles? They get infantry, just no vehicles, so it can't be a supply issue (or can it?).

In other news, I'm really starting to see why people are calling this a masterpiece. Anyone with the slightest interest in wargaming or 4X should check it out.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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Paradroid wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:03 pm Can anyone tell me why my militia units don't get replacement vehicles? They get infantry, just no vehicles, so it can't be a supply issue (or can it?).

In other news, I'm really starting to see why people are calling this a masterpiece. Anyone with the slightest interest in wargaming or 4X should check it out.
I am not sure how militia units work. They are generated automatically due to militancy (although I can't remember what factors into this). I think that means that their vehicles are replaced the same way - which means you can't control when and how it is done). They are often complete rubbish anyway, so I would move quickly to create actual army unit versions of whatever militia units you see getting depleted. The BIG exception to this are GR units, which are designated as militia, but have Galactic Republic weapons (often high tech lasers). They are very powerful and cannot be replaced (AFAIK) when they are destroyed. If you manage to find a shield generator, walker, or tank, you are golden.

I think this video has some info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSmEiLDTRao

I started another planet, since the new patch has some nice stuff. This is an "Unclassified" planet. After some re-rolling, I managed to get a lush but arid planet with giant cloud scraping trees and an earth-like but insidiously poisonous atmosphere. So there is plenty of air, but it will kill people (so we are all in envirosuits). That said, earth plants grow find outside of a dome, and it used to be a rich farming planet before the fall.

The big problem is that there is very little metal on the planet (we are still prospecting for it). I have had to resort to trade and scavenging/recycling to build my early economy. I also started with two Major regimes right next door, which is a bit stressful, although I grabbed the minor regimes in between us very quickly (to prevent them from doing so). I can tell this game is going to be tight.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Paradroid »

Thanks mate. Yeah I get how militia works (or thought I did), and I get that they're basically just a home guard that shouldn't be relied on for anything else. I'm just curious as to why infantry are being replaced but not vehicles. I'd move them closer to HQ to see if it really is a supply issue, but currently they're propping up a border.

I did find a walker unit as a matter of fact! I was aware of how good they are because I managed to piss off a neighbouring AI and they send a few such units after me. I had to commit my entire army at a single unit in order to fight it off. Thankfully they seem to have got bored with me now. So I am in turn, of course, now marching my new-found walkers to go smash one of my other neighbours. :D

This is such a good game. I discover something new almost every turn!
Last edited by Paradroid on Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Moat_Man »

I'm 18 episodes into BATTLEMODE's Let's Play of this game. I am hooked. I don't own the game yet but I don't think I can hold off until it goes on sale again. It seems like a great mix of hex based combat with counters (appeals to my old school Squad Leader side), city building with a portion the AI controls (the private economy has a Distant Worlds feel), a supply/logistics management system that appeals to me (I loved supply in Conquest: Frontier Wars) plus a couple of tech trees.

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Re: Shadow Empire

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I still play this quite a bit. It's been my go to strategy game for a while.

He just put out a great update recently that added the possibility of sentient aliens of various stripes to evolve on your planet which makes for some difficult challenges. Also has a naval expansion coming soon.

Really a great, re-playable strategy game for the money.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Madmarcus »

I'm trying to hold out for a sale. Luckily OOTP22 is distracting me or else I'd almost certainly cave in.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by WYBaugh »

Madmarcus wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:08 pm I'm trying to hold out for a sale. Luckily OOTP22 is distracting me or else I'd almost certainly cave in.
How are you enjoying 22? I'm attempting to hold out on buying it but the new 3d parks look real nice.

One thing I don't like compared to 21 is the red on the background screens. Is this just an artifact of having team colors or is it a main shift in their ui?
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Madmarcus »

I'm mostly playing Perfect Team and in that mode team colors certainly change the look but my team has red in its colors. I fired up a quick challenge mode with the Yankees and your right that there is a lot of red in the UI then also.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Moat_Man »

Well I cracked and bought it. Got eight turns in before I realized that I should have built an Industry plant first instead of a Recycling Plant. Doh! Now I'm starved for industry and can't really do anything. Good thing building a new planet is cool. :)
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Re: Shadow Empire

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Moat_Man wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:00 pm Well I cracked and bought it. Got eight turns in before I realized that I should have built an Industry plant first instead of a Recycling Plant. Doh! Now I'm starved for industry and can't really do anything. Good thing building a new planet is cool. :)
Building a new Industry can be equally problematic if you don't have the metal to build it. I usually try to find a metal mine, or get a few recycling plants first.

TBH, however, I am enjoying starting out at one of the higher tech levels. You get your first industry pre-built, which helps some of the early game crawl.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by Sepiche »

If anyone has this on their wishlist, it's on sale now, and the new ocean world expansion is out tomorrow.

I've racked up close to 500 hours in this somehow... might be my most played game next to Stellaris. Despite the mediocre UI and graphics, I love the gameplay and randomness of what you're up against in each game.

Highly recommend for anyone who enjoys a nice, relaxing, hex-based wargame.
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Re: Shadow Empire

Post by jztemple2 »

Green Man Gaming also has it on sale and by using the voucher code MAR16 it should be even cheaper. I haven't gotten the game yet but if it is cheap enough I might take the leap.

UPDATE: The MAR16 code has expired.
Last edited by jztemple2 on Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shadow Empire

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jztemple2 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:33 pm Green Man Gaming also has it on sale and by using the voucher code MAR16 it should be even cheaper. I haven't gotten the game yet but if it is cheap enough I might take the leap.
It is one of the best hex-based wargames I have ever played. It ticks a lot of boxes - unit creation, fun tech, build on the map (roads, logistics, etc.), old school Sci Fi weirdness, unlimited variety with different planets (and they DO feel very different from one another). You would love it!
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Re: Shadow Empire

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baelthazar wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:49 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:33 pm Green Man Gaming also has it on sale and by using the voucher code MAR16 it should be even cheaper. I haven't gotten the game yet but if it is cheap enough I might take the leap.
It is one of the best hex-based wargames I have ever played. It ticks a lot of boxes - unit creation, fun tech, build on the map (roads, logistics, etc.), old school Sci Fi weirdness, unlimited variety with different planets (and they DO feel very different from one another). You would love it!
That MAR16 code no longer is valid, but I went ahead and got the game. I've been thinking about getting it forever and since it now has DLC I figure it must finally be ready for me :roll:. I also got the DLC after reading this article, B4 You Buy Shadow Empire: Oceania, over on explorminate.co
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Re: Shadow Empire

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jztemple2 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:38 pm You're starting to convince me... :D
I think this is one of the slower examples of the OO Effect, more than two years to kick in.

I started looking at the "Let's Play" video above but I have an aversion to spending that much time watching a video about a game I'd rather be playing. Also I checked and the video linked above is the first of one hundred and two episodes :shock:. So I'm reading the manual and alt-tabbing back and forth to the game.
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