Sick of sucking at new racing games...let's talk arcade vs sim

[Paradroid]

Thanks for the heads-up on the Automobilista series; I'd never heard of them. For some reason they never come up on "similar games" on Steam when I'm looking at ACC or PC2. I'll look into these.

I'm really pleased you're getting back into Project Cars 2! It's really hard for me to pick a favourite between that and ACC. Currently my interest in GT3 keeps me in ACC (and as I noted earlier I find it does a better job of training noobs), but PC2 is just as good and has a much wider range of cars and tracks.

Absolutely agreed on the driving line, it's the one assist I've never used. There's no point even playing the game with the driving line on; the computer is pretty much playing it for you. It doesn't help people learn, it stops people learning.

My advice, and this is how I'm having huge success on ACC, is to use nothing but traction control and ABS. Pick a course and a car, and do nothing else but practise, practise, practise. I only use a gamepad but I've somehow gone from spinning off every single corner to actually winning a race against AI in the space of a week or two, because I did absolutely nothing but practise lap after lap of Monza with the same car. Learn the braking points, learn when to start accelerating out of a corner, and crucially, don't push it for a long time. Learn every single nook and cranny of the track, learn your braking points, and above all else, learn how to do clean laps consistently every time. Only then should you start figuring out where you can really start to push it and decrease your lap times.

[coopasonic]

One more thing on Automobilista 2.

Hmmm VR support... it's a shame I don't have a modern racing wheel (mine was purchased in like 1997 so not exactly USB).

[jztemple2]

Speaking of wheels, playing last night with a controller I once again got my numbness and pain in my fingers and so I finally decided to break down and get a wheel/pedal combination. I did some surfing last night to check out different wheels. Today my wife noted I have a birthday coming up in a few months so I should splurge. I ordered a Logitech G920 Dual-Motor Feedback Driving Force Racing Wheel with Responsive Pedals through Amazon. Sadly because I waited till today instead of last night it isn't coming till July 8th instead of July 1st , but that's always the way isn't it? Since it isn't shipping for a few days, if someone convinces me I've made a terrible mistake (not unlikely ) I can still cancel.

[Kasey Chang]

You're fine. G920/G29 are the consumer-premium grade wheels to go to. Only thing better would be the expensive Fanatec's. Anything cheaper are not dual motor or not even force feedback.

[jztemple2]

You're fine. G920/G29 are the consumer-premium grade wheels to go to. Only thing better would be the expensive Fanatec's. Anything cheaper are not dual motor or not even force feedback.

Thanks, good to know. It's been about twenty years since I've bought a wheel for my PC and this might be the last one I get, so I wanted to be happy with it. Now I just have to convince myself to stay away from my racing games till it arrives...

[jztemple2]

Thanks for the heads-up on the Automobilista series; I'd never heard of them.

As I mentioned I own the first one and played it a while. Being from Brazil there are tracks and cars you never hear about but the game focuses on the racing experience rather than glitz which makes it interesting. The original, I believe, used the old SimBin engine so graphically it wasn't ground breaking but was known for being very good at modelling the real physics.

There is a post over on their forum, Automobilista 2 - All Cars and Tracks currently in the Game (V0.9.2.1). That should be the last update before the V1.0 release. I've inserted the images of all the cars and all the tracks, click to expand.

[hitbyambulance]

i'm still looking for a copy of DiRT 2 that's not stupid expensive

[JetFred]

By the way, should we be starting a forum thread for racing sims? Would folks be interested in that?

It is funny that my post about finding the balance between arcade and sim has turned into a discussion of how to enjoy racing sims, but it doesn't bother me. I can change the title or you can start a new thread.

[jztemple2]

By the way, should we be starting a forum thread for racing sims? Would folks be interested in that?

It is funny that my post about finding the balance between arcade and sim has turned into a discussion of how to enjoy racing sims, but it doesn't bother me. I can change the title or you can start a new thread.

Changing the title would be great, we could continue this thread as a discussion of both arcade and sim racing games. I think that interplay of ideas is sometimes what is missing when threads are devoted to a single game. I'm really learning a lot from this thread

[JetFred]

Done

[jztemple2]

Looks good!

I picked up Automobilista 2 and have been giving it a run-through. As it is based on the Project Cars 2 physics engine it feels pretty good. Also, although the menu selections might be in different locations than PC2, anyone familiar with the latter shouldn't have any issues being able to navigate.

Graphically the track environments aren't as detailed as PC2 and some are a bit spartan, but for a racing sim they are fine. The driving physics are just like PC2 of course and even with my controller I am able to enjoy the racing. The track selection as I mentioned in a previous post are varied but with a number of South American tracks. The car selection doesn't include many licensed vehicles, but they do have quite a lot of variety and I especially like the big engine RWD sedans. There a several types of karts and a number of kart tracks, but I really suck at those .

Should you buy it? If you like Project Cars 2 and want to get more of the same, have at it. But there are some things to be aware of. Currently the game doesn't have any race championship series working except Brazilian Stock Cars 2020, which is a shame since they worked fairly well in the original Automobilista. Also multiplayer currently isn't worked. Now this might seem like they released an unready game, but their plan was to release the game when the basic single player experience was ready with the ability to create a single race with any car series at any track, plus standalone testing and time trials. There will be future releases to add features as well as free cars and tracks. Plus there is a bunch of DLC planned. However, if you don't mind playing the full price, you might want to avoid getting it till it has the features you want.

[Kasey Chang]

I went back to play Grid Autosport, and I went back to first Street Event and replayed it, I can see why I got 5th on that one... Even with AI on "easy", the game's brutal. The small hot hatches don't have enough power to pass, and the RWD cars are WAY TOO LOOSE and spins are almost inevitable. Strangely, I didn't have this problem in GRID (the previous version) with the RWD cars.

The first 2 races are racing Ford Fiesta against other hot hatches like Golf and new Mini and so on. And I have no problem with that. That's FWD, and with a little tease of handbrake I can rotate the car without a problem. But the RWD events, using the Subaru BRZ, is nearly impossible, and that's despite turning rear shocks to full soft and diff to more locking (which should make it more about going straight. Almost every corner is in danger of spinning the car. Never mind hitting someone (or someone hitting you). There were two races... Dubai, and Barcelona. The Dubai track was a lot of large sweeping curves, and the danger there is if you just turn a little too sharp or hit the throttle just a little too much, you'll spin out. And that's with the vehicle set to minimum height! Took several retries to win that one. Barcelona was even worse. There are a LOT of corners, and the trick is find the line that lets you almost cut the corners in a series of chicanes to gain some time back. But if you are wrong, you bounce off one wall to another and probably spin the car. There's also a couple sharp turns that must be taken at half-throttle or less else you'll spin the car. Tried that race about... 20+ times and finally managed to win it, so 4 1st place finishes means I won the event.

Decided to try Tuner class, which is time trials and drift events. The problem here is... I've NEVER drifted in GA, and you ONLY have 10 minutes of practice (and it's counted down to the second). And as I said before... I can't drift. Need for Speed style, okay. Drift competition? Gymkhana? Can't do it. I did fine on time trial: a road circuit based on inside of an oval (it's not Indianapolis, but feels like it?) using a Camaro. The trick is finding the proper brake points, then learning the cornering speed for each corner (and the braking marks are decent indicators) and how much throttle per corner, and whether one can handle just a LITTLE power oversteer. And turns out, I can. Won that by like 3 seconds. Tried to drift by going out to practice, can't even making it around the course before spinning. I didn't really even want to try "very easy" here. I was that lame.

I could go play open wheel but it'd feel just like time trials, I suspect. And don't really like to play endurance.

I really miss the co-driver in rallies, and as I have "interior only" difficulty on, I don't get a minimap or race progress other than what comes over the radio, and on some tracks, there is almost no visual cues to let you know when to brake.

----

Went back to Sebastian Loeb Rally Evo, and decided to give it another chance, hoping for more rally and less "arcade-y" gymkhana stuff. I was disappointed. It introduced two more of these:

a) perfect trajectory: complete a lap, but you have to do it between the cones (which are setup near turns). if you hit the cones, you get a time penalty. Hit enough penalties, and you get DNF. And the penalties are bad enough you'd rather slow down to go cleanly, instead of hitting them. I *hate* precision driving like that, so bad that I only got bronze for that one.

b) gateway: around some parts of the track are place 3 gates across the track. You can only go through the ones marked GREEN. Go through the wrong one will incur a penalty. Get enough penalties and you get DNF. This one is not as bad as perfect trajectory because you can see the gate from pretty far away. The cones are almost invisible until you come upon them.

Already discussed sector battle and elimination earlier.

The "schtick" here is Loeb himself is looking for a driving teammate to tackle Pike's Peak, and this rally evo game is sort of his... driving academy and selection process. As you win events, you get reputation. With reputation, you started climbing the ranks of the drivers. When you reach a certain rank, you can undergo one of Loeb's special races, and whoever wins all of them gets the spot.

In reality, the races get ridiculous. Instead of normal rally length designation, you get length in yards. Yes, yards, like 10283 yards. Not miles, not kilometers... yards. The rallycross races are ridiculous. Remember I said the joker laps are not clearly marked? It's even worse on some of the other tracks. There's a t-shaped track that I honestly CANNOT see where was the joker lap. The only help was the mini-map. Signage was practically invisible. I think I finished that race 3 times without taking a joker lap (because I can't find it!) and restarted each time, until finally I found it as I near that corner as shown on the minimap.

Many races against AI are all dependent on luck and unsportsman-like driving... i.e. drive like Jason Bourne, use car to ram the other guy out of the way. Cut inside the kerb. PIT maneuver. You get the idea.

Not really enjoying it. Will probably move to a different game VERY soon

[jztemple2]

Well, color me excited. My Logitech G920 Wheel/Pedals wasn't due till next Friday, but now is coming on Monday . I'm going to use it first with Project Cars 2 as it should be mature enough that the FFB implementation is as good as it will be able to get. I should note that this is only my second PC wheel, my first was a couple of decades ago, a Logitech Wingman Force Wheel. I feel this will be an improvement

[gbasden]

But the RWD events, using the Subaru BRZ, is nearly impossible, and that's despite turning rear shocks to full soft and diff to more locking (which should make it more about going straight. Almost every corner is in danger of spinning the car. Never mind hitting someone (or someone hitting you).

That's super weird. I owned a BRZ and tracked it, and while it wasn't long on horsepower it stayed planted on the track like it was glued to it. You could absolutely drift it if you wanted to, but I never felt in danger of spinning it even on tight corners.

[Kasey Chang]

I know. BRZ, not being a muscle car, should NOT be that loose, even in a sim. But BRZ in Grid Autosport feels more like a Lancia Stratos in DR2: EXTREMELY tail happy. I think I'll skip that and go to the revised GRID which I know I have from my Humble Bundle somewhere.

EDIT: Turns out GRID (2019) weights in at... 54.4GB (that's the complete edition as per Humble Bundle/ Steam)

[Paradroid]

I'm really struggling to get my consistency rating in ACC above 69, however I'm having an easier time with my safety rating which is now 39 after just a few races vs AI - just one point short of the minimum a lot of servers seem to demand. I'm looking forward to getting online at last!

[Kasey Chang]

I'm really struggling to get my consistency rating in ACC above 69, however I'm having an easier time with my safety rating which is now 39 after just a few races vs AI - just one point short of the minimum a lot of servers seem to demand. I'm looking forward to getting online at last!

Watch Driver61 on Youtube. He's a real-life racing coach and he specializes in circuit racing.

[Paradroid]

Oh I watch plenty of Youtubers.

The problem with consistency is entirely my own fault; I just find it hard to do three laps in a row taking every corner in precisely the same way - but every now and again the stars align and I manage it, and the CN creeps slowly upward. Fortunately from what I've seen most servers don't have CN restrictions, just SA, which I'm finding a lot easier to improve.

[Kasey Chang]

Decided to try Grid (2019) instead of Grid Autosport. It's... interesting. TONS more eye candy. And the cars are... more planted. They also gave you a better car to start with... The muscle car classic Firebird Grid Edition is not too fast, and a bit hard around the corners, but with nannies on they aren't too bad. It's also very restrictive in performance. I'll have to test the car without the nannies and see if it's as tail-happy as I expect. I just realized I got 6th and 2nd with nannies on, Wonder how I'd do with them off? It's also nice that you are not required to win the races, just podium, or finish in the top half. No need to turn down the AI just the enjoy the game. I'm doing okay at medium with nannies on. Wonder if I can drive better with them off?

Oh, and it's also nice that they included nemesis mode in AI... If you hit another car too many times, they turn into your nemesis and will try to spin you and ruin your day. So not more AI car exploits... Use them as braking barriers. No more of that. Hahaha.

Right upon the intro they throw you into a GT race (C5 Corvette?) a Stock Car race (Daytona?) and a World Touring Car Race (one of those hot hatches) right after being spun out and back onto the track. You don't have a team yet, so it doesn't matter how you do in those races, and I think that last one is impossible to "win" as you only have like 2-3 laps. But it sure is pretty. And the complete edition has like 3 "seasons" of content, and that's more cars and more tracks and variations.

EDIT: Tried it without nannies. The car setup strangely is extremely simplified, so there's no turning the rear to stop the oversteer and that sort of thing. It's both axles at once, or no adjustment. Same as Grid Autosports. This is a bit problematic, as some cars are quite tail-happy, and very precise throttle control is needed, esp. in the sharper corners. When AI can bump you at any corner, it is best NOT to put yourself into a vulnerable spot so someone can spin you. And the nemesis system works great. I was bumped in a particularly nasty high-speed corner in San Francisco. Got bumped at the wrong time that I went full-force into the corner and got terminal damage. Hahaha.

But I think I'm in the "tuner" class, and I expect GT cars to be more planted. Changing the setup does make the tail slightly less likely to step out, and I can initiate a drift turn. But I think the problem is throttle control where max throttle at the wrong time means a spinout. And that, requires a bit of learning.

[JetFred]

So basically what ur all saying is I should play NFS Carbon ok thanks

[Kasey Chang]

So basically what ur all saying is I should play NFS Carbon ok thanks

I'd say come to the present with NFS: The Run and maybe NFS: Payback. Those are pretty good, IMHO. No need to pay extra for NFS: Heat.

I haven't quite got NFS (2018?) to work yet. Will try again later.

Tried a couple more missions in Sebastian Loeb Rally Evo. There's a section called "The Loeb Experience" where you try to recreate pivotal moments of his career, like his first win, his first local championship, and when Citroen decided to let him race their WRC car in 2002. I didn't know that Loeb was actually teammates with Colin McRae and Carlos Sainz in 2003. Next would be him just missing out driver's championship because Citroen told him not to push as they want the manufacturer's cup and if he wrecked Citroen will lose. He lost by 1 point. That was kinda exciting, as these scenarios are run on different stages using different cars and they often have a little twist, like you must come in at least 2nd, or you must set the fastest time for each segment...

[jztemple2]

With my new Logitech G920 wheel/pedal set I'm getting back into Project Cars 2. Thanks to some videos found by Daehawk I was able to find this, ULTIMATE Custom FFB - NEW update 4.0 THE HOLY GRAIL 4.0 for the G920. It definitely makes the car feel better to drive in Project Cars 2. I just did a Formula Rookie practice, qualifying and race at Long Beach and the feeling through the wheel seems just like it should. I then moved on to Watkins Glen.

Of course, it had to be raining....

[Kasey Chang]

Trying to play NFS (2015), and this is a disaster of a game, and this is surprising.

I was finally able to get it working, by unmapping EVERYTHING except the gamepad (even the keyboard). And now I can finally control the car. But the control curve just feels wrong. It's a Fox body Mustang. I know it's RWD, but this is NFS game. It shouldn't be THAT loose either.

And who the **** decided that B on gamepad is mapped to "engine on/off" instead? And handbrake is set to X?! And even custom mapping doesn't fix that. Tapping B brings up the main menu, instead of ESC or menu! WTF?!

And what's with the always-online system? When my internet went offline (had to reboot the router), I was rudely dumped out of my existing game, even though I was not playing online. ARGH.

And when I can't even win one of the three intro races, I'd say something's not right with the game.

[JetFred]

Sounds broke

[Paradroid]

Sounds like yet another shitty PC port.

In other news, I'm over the CN hump in ACC - got it up to 75 now and feeling pretty good about it! I also did one more race against AI and got my SA above 40, so I'm finally ready to get online! Well you know, not ready, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

[jztemple2]

Question about Project Cars 2 career mode (I also posted this to the Steam forum but I don't know if it is being monitored any more).

Do I have to win a championship to advance to the next tier? Or just finish, say, in the top three? I was just kicked out of a championship after three of four races because I couldn't get enough points in the last race (I guess) but the message wasn't explicit. Any help would be appreciated!

[Paradroid]

So I followed through with my threat to race online. Just did my first online race on Monza in a Lambo Huracan. It was really fun, but some tit rear-ended me TWICE and did so much damage to my car that I had to limp back to the pit for a two minute pitstop. In a ten lap race. Yeah. Needless to say, I came last (but ahead of about seven other players who dropped out, including the tit who had the gall to criticise my driving).

Miraculously my safety rating actually increased after the race.

I'm definitely trying that again.

[Paradroid]

....aaaand I'm done with online racing. I've done a few now, and in every single one I've been taken out by dickheads either driving erratically in general, rear-ending me instead of passing cleanly, or in two cases actually driving the wrong way on the track. The last race I did was ten laps, and I only did two clean laps because that's how often I was getting shunted off the road. It's pissing me off.

Very surprising to see in a hardcore racing sim. I might stick to AI races until I get my safety rating above 80; apparently SA 80 is the bare minimum the serious players use.

[Rumpy]

Question about Project Cars 2 career mode (I also posted this to the Steam forum but I don't know if it is being monitored any more).

Do I have to win a championship to advance to the next tier? Or just finish, say, in the top three? I was just kicked out of a championship after three of four races because I couldn't get enough points in the last race (I guess) but the message wasn't explicit. Any help would be appreciated!

You just need enough points in the championship overall. Technically, if you have enough points, you can even skip a race you don't feel like doing and still complete the championship. I do this all the time. If I'm doing well enough overall but a race is bothering me, I can choose to skip it entirely and still be in the clear.

[jztemple2]

Thanks for the help!

I've spent several hours now racing with my new Logitech G920 and I'm impressed with how solid it feels. I've had to fiddle with the relationships between my chair, the wheel and the pedals to get it to feel more "natural". My biggest issue now is my left leg. Since in real life I use my right foot for brake as well as gas, my left leg is now getting a workout it has never had before. All for the best I guess. I have the AI turned down quite a bit in Project Cars 2, but I'm really enjoying the racing. It feels like what I would expect a racing car (in this case a Formula Rookie) to feel like. Last night I switched to the Clio and it was a whole new world to get used to.

I'm resisting the temptation to jump from game to game to game to try the wheel with different sims, since I know a good part of the change will be needing to tweak the wheel FFB settings and I don't want to be wasting a lot of time messing with those for awhile.

[Kasey Chang]

Somewhat surprisingly, I'm STILL playing Sebastian Loeb Rally Evo. Though it's basically different cars, same tracks. The events are getting longer. Rally now lasts multiple days and up to 6 stages instead of just a single stage. Instead of one RallyCross race (and the joker lap issue is still not resolved) it's now a "championship" of 3 rallycross races. But it's still the same game, same limitations. And I expect the events to get even longer. SLRE also has its own car class system, which gets complicated. I guess I can keep trying a few more events...

[Octavious]

F1 2020 is getting rave reviews and is very playable on a gamepad if you don't have a wheel. The big addition is the my team where you build up your own team. I'll be buying to for sure even though I already have too many racing games.

[jztemple2]

Well, I did what I said I wasn't going to do, I'm switching around between games. I didn't think that having only a 512GB SSD would be a hindrance, but with Forza Motorsports 7 taking up about a hundred gigs and Dirt Rally 2.0 taking up even more, I'm having to make some decisions on what to try and what to drop. Actually after giving Dirt Rally 2.0 another try I am reminded that for some reason I just don't feel as comfortable running rallies in it as I did in DiRT 4. So out with DR2 and now I'm re-re-reinstalling DiRT 4 . I've also got Ghost Recon Breakpoint installed since hopefully within a couple of weeks the new AI Companions update will arrive.

I've given up for now on Project Cars 2. I ran a couple of career series with the Formula Rookie car and it was good. Then I switched to a series with the Renault Clio and it was OK. And then I progressed to Formula C and started running practice at Brno, a track I've never run before. So it was lap after lap of practice and I asked myself, "Am I having fun?". The answer was no. In fact I started remembering how I had dropped circuit racing and switched to rallying last year with DiRT 4. So I'm going to give it a try again with the Logitech G920. I still have FM7 installed and I guess I can go back to Forza Horizon 4, although with that game having a nice wheel/pedal set seems like overkill

[jztemple2]

Running rallies in DiRT 4 using the G920 is a lot of fun since I'm not causing fingers to go numb or give me pain

But of course, setting up the force feedback is frustrating since I don't know what I'm doing. I used the default, everything 100% settings and wow it just felt awful. So I went to the Steam Guides and found these two suggested settings sets.

#1


#2


Pretty different, huh? I tried both and while I couldn't put my finger on it, #1 just felt better to use. #2 just seemed to have too many inputs happening too often. So I stuck with #1 and damn I'm so much faster than before . Of course I was driving a front wheel drive car and maybe it won't be as clearcut when I got to RWD or AWD. But small steps at first...

[Kasey Chang]

SLRE has TWELVE car classes:

* 70's
* 2WD rookie
* 2WD pro
* Class 4
* Class R5
* Class A8
* Modern
* Production
* Evo
* Group B
* Hillclimb
* Class S (experimental)

Each has 4-6 vehicles.

There are EIGHTEEN manufacturers (including DLC)

The color palette and overall look just feel a bit... artificial.

I am NOT enjoying the rallycross at all. I basically drive like Jason Bourne as I said before... Ram others out of the way, PIT them or flip them. Joker lap is just not well designed. All in all, rallycross was an afterthought. I can recognize the same tracks in Dirt 4, and Dirt 4's tracks are much better.

Rallys are not bad.

[jztemple2]

I never did get to like rallycross. It is, as you say, seeming just an excuse for a bunch of bumping and ramming.

I do like the My Stage feature of DiRT 4 for creating new rally stages, for me it is a big draw that you never have to drive the same course twice. The scenery might be a bit boring compared to Dirt Rally 2.0, but in the original Dirt Rally I did get tired of seeing the same course over and over.

[Rumpy]

I loved doing the rallycross as part of the campaign in Project Cars 2. I got Dirt Rally 2.0 via PS+, so I decided to check that out too, and I couldn't get into it there. Everything feels so much looser and I didn't find the joker laps marked quite as well. I guess I'm so much more used to the physics in Project Cars 2 as the cars feel better.