Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by jztemple2 »

I decided to post this topic since I've been tinkering between two games and since there are a lot of sales going on, someone might be interested in knowing more about the two games before buying.

I picked up DiRT Rally 2.0 (henceforth DR2) on Green Man Gaming, the whole Game of the Year/Super Deluxe Edition with everything including the kitchen sink. It looks great and the GOTY edition has about three dozen cars already unlocked and bought for the player. For a Rally or Rallycross enthusiast, it have lots of content... or at least it seems to.

Sadly, there are some disappointments if you, like me, have already played DiRT 4 (henceforth D4) with its own Rally and Rallycross modes. D4, like the later DR2, has a team mode, but whereas DR2 just basically has you employing a few folks like engineers who will give you some attributes and unlocks, D4 had a whole team structure with a chief engineer, other engineers, a PR person and others. Also there were several facilities you can buy, like larger garages to hold more cars and a better parts department so you can get repair parts cheaper. And an R&D department. You even have a catering department! Additionally your Team in D4 has sponsors which will kick in extra money for achieving certain criteria during a rally, like winning X number of stages or having a clean run. And as part of the sponsorship system, you can design your own liveries for your cars and your sponsor logos will be added to it. All that is missing from DiRT Rally 2.0 and so it lacks the immersive feel of being on a team.

One of the draws of DiRT Rally 2.0 are the amazingly detailed stages. In the GOTY package there are eleven rally locations, which is quite a nice number. However, just like in the original DiRT Rally game, the individual stages of each rally event at each location are just segments of the one course present at each location. Of course, for variety the stages might be run in reverse direction, or in different weather or different lighting conditions. However, in the four hours I've played DR2 I've come across at least a half dozen times where I'm running a stage on the part of the course I've run there at least once before. This was what finally drove me to give up on the original DiRT Rally game after about 45 hours, that even though I might be driving a different class of car, at a different time in different weather, it was the same old set of segments I'd run a dozen times before. I even started giving some of the rocks and trees names because I've run into them so often :roll:

One of the appeals of the older DiRT 4 game is that for rallies it uses the "Your Stage" system. This system randomly generates a rally stage based on a series of parameters like location, length, complexity, time of day and weather. And once generated you can also reverse the stage direction. Now this system can be used to generate your own stages, but it should be noted that all the rallies in the career mode were generated using the "Your Stage" system. So as a result, no two stages are alike, which is a pretty cool thing for a rally game. Sadly Codemasters seemed to have lost interest in using this system for future games.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough. If anyone has questions please post them, I'd love to talk more about rally games :D
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Well, Dirt 4 also has landrush/stadium trucks and crosskarts, in addition to modern rally, rallycross, and historical rallies.

I have both, and I haven't bought all the expansions for DR2 yet. I think I've tried ONE race where I slid off the road in the first corner and terminal'ed the car. So I decided to play some more Dirt 4 (in gamer mode, not authentic mode) before trying DR2. again. I've gone through all the lessons in academy and I've been doing OKAY in my career stuff.

I have WRC4,5,6, and 7. Didn't really play 7 much. Played 6 from JWRC to WRC2 and I'm 5 rallies into WRC. AI's either too easy or too hard. *sigh*
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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I decided to increase my Dirt 4 difficulty level to 86% (it was 73% before) by foregoing all but 1 restart (it was on 10) and limit myself to cockpit view ONLY, and turned off most of the assists. I think I only have ABS (set to 3) and engine braking (set to 1, basically how fast the vehicle slows when not accelerating) but I think I can probably cut ABS back to 1 or even 0, as I barely tap the brakes, and I don't hold my brakes.

Doing the 4th historical rally career event with the Peugeot 308 Maxi. It was pretty docile as it's FWD, but you can throw it around corners if you are careful. The only problem would be not braking for the corners properly. Did the first rally, which was 5 Australian stages. Lost the first one by a hair (2nd instead of first), but I wasn't quite familiar with the car yet. Won the next four easily.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Finished the historical FWD Rally (tier 1) winning both rallies. Flipped the car ONCE, but still managed to pull out a 1st place finish on that stage, due to tremendous amount of lead built up before. Won that stage with less than a second to spare, but a win's a win. That S Alvarez guy is pretty persistent. :D But unlike me, quite inconsistent.

Almost ready to buy a Group B car... those super-HP monster cars with like 500 hp. There's RWD, and there's 4WD, and right now, I'm not sure I can afford them, as I just spend like 120K upgrading my PR agent and replacing one of my engineers. (If you offer extension, you don't have to pay a hiring fee for a new guy, which can be significant). But if they all want a cut in the profit, what's left for you? Hmmm?

Next will probably be the "sealed surface trophy" in Spain, where I've won once with the BMW 3 Evo in a different event. Probably lower the stance a bit more for stability. You can drift a little, but is it really faster around the corners this way?
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Won Sealed Surface in Spain with the BMW M3 Evo. Only lost 1 stage on the 2nd rally, by 0.69 seconds. And that's because I actually slid off a corner and get 12 second penalty for recovery, which also blew one of the bonuses.

I'm about to advance into tier 2... and I just bought my Group B car: Quattro. I hope I can drive that 500 hp monster. Four championships with four rallies each, and each rally is 5-6 stages each. And I will still need an RWD Group B car.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

I decided to go back to play modern rally, but old low-tier stuff, albeit, with a higher difficulty level. And so far, I'm doing fine. I've turned up the difficulty another notch from "challenging" to "demanding", and now the difficulty bonus is at 88%. I still won, of course, but it took a couple shakedowns for me to find a good setup for Evo X on the asphalt. Those left-one and right-one turns are deceptively hard, but once I got the hang of braking points they are not that bad. I am consistently beating the next strongest AI by about 5 seconds if I drive well, 2nd place if I don't, and I guess that's fair. It's kinda weird though, how fast the AI is through some splits and slow across others.

I'm at 14 or 15 cars, and I really need either a garage (400K) or R&D -Grade A department (240K) or both. Right now I have nearly one of every class except 4wd stadium truck. I need garage to expand my car collection (next level up is 30 cars) and R&D Grade A means I can field grade A upgrades for my vehicles. Right now all the vehicles that needed them have full suite of grade B upgrades, and they work pretty well. So far, I've only had "brake failures", when they started to grind and brakes funny, but they seem to resolve themselves as the problem went away. I've yet to see other failures.

Just get my grade "A" sponsors, and they provide a good bonus, at 3000+ per "goal". The grade B sponsors only do like 2500, and grade C sponsors, even less, like 2000 per goal throughout the championships. OTOH, it's kinda funny how different sponsors in the same category won't appear on the same vehicle. Like if you have Pirelli, you can't have Yokohama (both make tires).

I do wish they warn me better about expiring contracts and/or sponsors though.

Owning a car in each category is my intention to drive my own car(s) through all the championships, instead of driving someone else's vehicle. While it's nice I don't have to worry about setup and damages, it also cuts my payday. I believe if I drive my own vehicles, right now my team takes a 27% cut, which is offset by the extra sponsor money I get. So I just have to make sure I don't destroy the vehicle (and pay a lot of repairs) to get a good amount of money per championship. If I drive for another team, I get lose another 20-25%
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

May have bit off a bit more than I can chew here. Tried to run the 3rd championship (Australia and Wales) and just the Australia section is problematic. Never really did find a good setup for my Evo X, it somehow just didn't feel that nimble, and that "demanding" AI is now beating me by a few seconds. ARGH! I'll probably turn it back to "competent" (one level lower) and just lose that 1 or 2% bonus.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Octavious »

jztemple2 wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:02 pm I decided to post this topic since I've been tinkering between two games and since there are a lot of sales going on, someone might be interested in knowing more about the two games before buying.

I picked up DiRT Rally 2.0 (henceforth DR2) on Green Man Gaming, the whole Game of the Year/Super Deluxe Edition with everything including the kitchen sink. It looks great and the GOTY edition has about three dozen cars already unlocked and bought for the player. For a Rally or Rallycross enthusiast, it have lots of content... or at least it seems to.

Sadly, there are some disappointments if you, like me, have already played DiRT 4 (henceforth D4) with its own Rally and Rallycross modes. D4, like the later DR2, has a team mode, but whereas DR2 just basically has you employing a few folks like engineers who will give you some attributes and unlocks, D4 had a whole team structure with a chief engineer, other engineers, a PR person and others. Also there were several facilities you can buy, like larger garages to hold more cars and a better parts department so you can get repair parts cheaper. And an R&D department. You even have a catering department! Additionally your Team in D4 has sponsors which will kick in extra money for achieving certain criteria during a rally, like winning X number of stages or having a clean run. And as part of the sponsorship system, you can design your own liveries for your cars and your sponsor logos will be added to it. All that is missing from DiRT Rally 2.0 and so it lacks the immersive feel of being on a team.

One of the draws of DiRT Rally 2.0 are the amazingly detailed stages. In the GOTY package there are eleven rally locations, which is quite a nice number. However, just like in the original DiRT Rally game, the individual stages of each rally event at each location are just segments of the one course present at each location. Of course, for variety the stages might be run in reverse direction, or in different weather or different lighting conditions. However, in the four hours I've played DR2 I've come across at least a half dozen times where I'm running a stage on the part of the course I've run there at least once before. This was what finally drove me to give up on the original DiRT Rally game after about 45 hours, that even though I might be driving a different class of car, at a different time in different weather, it was the same old set of segments I'd run a dozen times before. I even started giving some of the rocks and trees names because I've run into them so often :roll:

One of the appeals of the older DiRT 4 game is that for rallies it uses the "Your Stage" system. This system randomly generates a rally stage based on a series of parameters like location, length, complexity, time of day and weather. And once generated you can also reverse the stage direction. Now this system can be used to generate your own stages, but it should be noted that all the rallies in the career mode were generated using the "Your Stage" system. So as a result, no two stages are alike, which is a pretty cool thing for a rally game. Sadly Codemasters seemed to have lost interest in using this system for future games.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough. If anyone has questions please post them, I'd love to talk more about rally games :D
You really should check out WRC 8 if you want a single player mode with meat. I was actually enjoying it more than Rally 2 because of this. And the stages are done much better imho. They have some crazy narrow courses that you never seen in Rally 2.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

One of these days I'll buy WRC8. I have 4, 5, 6, and 7. I was playing 6 but the AI isn't granular enough. Either I'm beating them by a wide margin or they're beating me by a wide margin. There's no in-between there. And 7 somehow just feels a bit too hard for the gamepad players. May get into it when I get tired of Dirt 4.

I think I also have Sebastian Loeb Rally EVO game around here somewhere...
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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I'm doing those community races for $$$ as they usually are like one stage only or so on, even though they usually use some weird cars. I think they had a Subaru Legacy (not the WRX, but the bigger one) on the other day. It's weird wrestling that around a dirt track. And no tuning allowed. I guess they want to see how you deal with that. :D I think I actually got top tier ONCE in one of those "daily deltas". They usually yield a good 60K for me. I don't score very high, usually, probably in the 50th when I do it, then got pushed into 60th or 70th at the end of event. But that's enough for 60K each race for a few minutes of time. Faster than go redo the existing championships for money.

That, and some races I redid, got me to 400+K, which I used to buy A grade R&D (for 240K) but that doesn't leave me much money to actually buy the upgrades. And I still need 400K to buy expanded garage.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Redid another championship, so that's the 4th championship in Rally-1 I redone. Accumulated about 424K with the community events, so bought the garage expansion. Left me with 24K. Better be enough for the near future expenditures.

Next stop: redo the 5th Rally-1 championship, and the 6th while I'm at it. I kinda want new engineers, but they are EXPENSIVE at like 100K signing bonus, and they aren't like significantly better than my existing ones (right now, they're all like grade C). I'd imagine I need a better PR agent to recruit the top talent too. It's all interconnected.

And made it to reputation level 30. Need to practice with my Group B Quattro, which is... let's just say, a beast to handle.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

I found the game sometimes refuses to give me the bonuses I earned. For example, I never did a recovery on any stage, yet the game insists I had one recovery or two recoveries. In another one, I lost a "finish in first place" bonus because the sponsor insist I finished 2nd, even though I won the championship, and I won 3 out of 4 stages outright, AND the very stage the sponsor was yakking about. WTF...

EDIT: Just happened again. 4 stages in one rally, won 3 stages. Won first overall. yet one sponsor thinks I got 2nd place, while ANOTHER sponsor in the SAME EVENT recognized my 1st place overall finish. WTF.

Won 1st place in the trophy

Yet sponsor thinks I finished 2nd!
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Just finished the Noughties Championship (a play on "Nineties" I guess) with the Peugeot. Could not make a clean run through 8 stages, but did win it. But it was a tougher race. I lost the first rally by a hair (2nd place) but won the second rally, and I have 40 championship points, which is 4 ahead of the next place guy.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Alefroth »

How about vs. Dirt 5?

That style they are touting looks too much like Motorstorm for my tastes.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Alefroth wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 1:35 pm How about vs. Dirt 5?

That style they are touting looks too much like Motorstorm for my tastes.
Looks like they're going for a mix of Dirt and Grid, basically mixed-class rallycross-style race, with announcers, mentor, and so on. At least two voice actors (Troy Baker and Nolan North) for the career mode, according to developer interviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFw752sJEhI

But yes, they are definitely going for a more "arcade" look and feel with Dirt 5. Sort of The Crew look maybe?
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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Dirt 4: Won the Euro loose (surface) championship, which is two rallies, gravel in Wales, and Snow in Sweden. Given how unfamiliar with the Subaru (the bug-eye version, the Richard Burns commemorative special) I am, and its weird setup (both axles are set to mid-loose, which supposedly helps it get around corners), I thought I actually did pretty darn well. This thing REALLY wants to get around corners, that if I accelerate at the wrong spot I can go into a 4-wheel drift and swing my tail out (and the center diff is in half-way point too!) On the other hand, engine sound is awful, or my headphone is awful and clipping the sound. I was great on gravel, and won 3 out of 4 stages, even finished a stage with one flat tire. But on snow? I am VERY inconsistent. Was unable to produce a clean stage, and mostly got 3rd, and once, fell all the way to 15th. Though made a HUGE comeback on the 3rd stage (beat 2nd place by like 10-15 seconds) to claw back to 2nd place overall. That gives me a tie for championship points, and guess that also makes me the champion due to me winning the previous rally. :D That pushed me to reputation level 33.

I remember not liking the Landrush events because the dirt vehicles, esp. the Crosskart, are VERY tail-happy, but either I learned patience or proper handling, it no longer is a problem for me. I did the daily special events (land rush or rally-cross with CrossKarts) and I won both day's event, albeit, a bit close in one case, with me beating the guy by a hair in the final corner. And it was a race where I had to take TWO joker laps due to jumping the start. Hahaha!
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Haven't reported in for a while.

Completed the Landrush and got the landrush champion title.

I'm at 82% for regular rally, 90% for Rallycross, and maybe 50-60% on Historical.

I am doing the Rallycross world tour, 5 locations, 6 races each. I really should get rid of sponsors who demand a "clean" race in RX... it's so unrealistic! Given 4 to 6 laps of hard racing across 6 races contact is inevitable! I may be able to keep it down to 2 total, but that's with VERY careful driving. And remember, I'm on a gamepad, not the most precise of driving controllers.

With that said, I've won 3 out of 5 locations so far in WRX, and I don't anticipate any problems in the last two locations. Raining helps keep the dust cloud down from the vehicles ahead, but if you manage yourself well, you'd never see them unless you're doing so well, you're about to lap the slow cars.

Haven't done regular rallies in a while. Decided to buy a Lancia Stratos with the proper livery by selling off my landrush vehicles. I didn't really need them anymore. Stratos is VERY nimble, but with some tweaking, it is actually a very controllable car.

Previously finished RWD Monsters which had 2 cars... Lancia 037, or Opel Manta (less reputation, but also 1/3 the price). With a bit of tweaking it was actually quite competitive. Won that after 20 stages over 4 events.

Fired my PR agent and hired an A-grade one... With 6% cut. At least the winnings are getting bigger to pay for all the engineers and PR agent demanding like 6% cut. Yikes.

I think I'll try to finish the WRX events, then alternate between regular and historical rally.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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Just won the WRX Championship. Will probably advance the historic rallies (International Cup and Group B Cup) before going back to regular rallies.

EDIT: Turns out it's the intercontinental cup, and I can use a group b car, so I used the Lancia Delta S4. Turbo and Supercharger, AWD, 20% LIGHTER than the Audi Sports Quattro, almost the same HP (at 425 vs 450), acceleration is brutal, handling is a bit iffy. It didn't quite like the twisty turns of Wales. I tried taming it with a bit more differential settings, but it's clear I don't have the optimum setup... I am either beating the AI by like 30-40 seconds, or they beat me by 15-25 seconds. So I built up like a full minute lead, and gave back 40+ seconds in the last two stages as I didn't try to push but to get a clean run (2 clean runs out of 5 ain't bad!). I may have been braking too hard around the corners and I should set the rear shocks a bit harder so it oversteers a little.

This is only event 1 of 4 though. Then there's the Group B cup, but this is good practice.

EDIT: Just finished event 2 also in Wales, won it. I don't think I've mastered the car, as I drove it quite conservatively (I had toned down the AI so I can just barely get 85% difficulty) Final two events are New Zealand (mainly gravel) and Sweden (snow!)

Finished event 3 in New Zealand. The more I drove the worse I got. I probably got impatient and started pushing the car and I started to spin out, probably applied the throttle at the wrong place and so on. First 2 stages are okay, 3rd one actually lost to the lousy AI. Fourth actually fell to third place but the win in the initial 2 stages means I'm still at 1st place overall. In the 5th stage finally calmed down and finished a clean lap and still won, and that means I win this event as well. Winning 3 out of 4 events should have guaranteed the championship, but it had to be played out, and this time, we're in the snow of Sweden.

EDIT: Okay, won Sweden, so that's that. Naturally, I am the champion, having won all four events. Could NOT get a clean stage in Sweden though, over 5-6 stages. It's just too hard. One small brush against the snowbank and it's no longer clean run. It may be possible if you deliberate go slower on one of the shorter stages, less places to screw up. But on a 6-7 mile course? Nah. if you need that bonus, try to go for the shorter courses. But with a gamepad, it's just not that precise to start with. ARGH.

That just unlocked the next two cups (3-4 countries of 8 stages each) then the Historical Ultimate Championship. Got one MORE series to finish in Historical, another group B event. Just won the Metro MG4, so now I can choose Audi Sports Quattro, Lancia Delta S4, or the MG Metro 4S. I remember the Quattro as being VERY twitchy, and I've adjusted the Lancia to be less so, at least on snow and gravel. Not sure about the MG Metro though.

EDIT: Started on the Group B Cup, and again, only managed to do 1 clean stage after 6 attempts at Sweden. Requirement was 2. I had to adjust the diff so the turns became VERY easy. Oh well.

Just did 2nd event in Group B cup in wales, did better than expected, got 2 clean attempts, basically went for speed on the long stages to gain time advantage, and took it easy on the short stages as not to lose too much time. It worked.

Did the third event too. Basically, lost by like 2-5 seconds on the short stages, but kept it clean. On the long stages, won it back and some more. On the first stage, where it rained, I was ahead by like 30 seconds. But on the 4th stage there was fog in one of the sections and that slowed me way down. Won the event though, no problem there.

----

Starting on standard Interconitinental cup. Chould have chosen a faster car, as N4 class feels slow and pathetic after driving for a while on Group B vehicles. Hahaha. Should have at least picked a S2000 class vehicle. Still, wasn't doing too bad with my Evo X. Have 2 more events, then another cup, then it's the ultimate modern rally competition.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Did one of those daily stages... in the fog, all the way, probably about 4-5 miles, RWD, Michigan, so it's only semi-twisty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMxnizg ... e=youtu.be

Didn't crash into a single thing, but I was only going at 80% of my "full visibility" speed, I estimated. Not too bad, I must say.

------

Finished the intercontinental cup with the Lancia Delta S4, it's certainly interesting, but a bit hard to maneuver at times. Won it, of course.

Started on Group A cup, won the first event (out of 4? 5?) with a comfortable margin despite rain and other factors. Chose the Evo VI rather than the hypothetically better Lancia Delta Integrale. I think I want the smaller car, and indeed, I was able to get TWO clean stages out of 5 without really trying in Wales. It's these blind bog areas (outside the forest, where they got there weird sharp turns in the middle of nothing... left 6, right 4, then suddenly you get a left 3, except it doesn't come up right away, and often, these bog means you can't see past the next corner. So the co-driver instructions only helps slightly.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Finished Group A cup, so ONLY the final cup remained on the regular rally schedule (92% completion).

---

I really don't like the Evo X. Somehow it just feels a lot more... pudgy than the Evo VI. It just does not feel nimble at all. And that's with almost identical setup as the Evo VI. But since I chose Evo X for my R4 / final cup racer, I have 4 more events, each with 6 stages to go. I won Michigan (Event 1) with almost two full minute margin, and that's with mistakes. I'm just MUCH better in the rain than the AI cars. It usually takes me a stage or two to get the hang of the handling.

One thing I noticed about Dirt 4... Codemaster was able to get independent throttle/brake out fo the two triggers on the gamepad. Most who read that do it the Microsoft way... The two triggers are analog, but treated as ONE input. So you CAN do trail braking and left foot braking properly. So I basically started driving the Evo X like a FWD car... Hold throttle down, but tap the brakes in turns. The tail is just loose enough too start rotation, but not loose enough to spin the car. As long as I don't overspeed into the corner I can make the turn, so it's more about letting go of the brakes at the right moment.

I've also noticed I tend to play with the throttle, pulsing the throttle a bit like Ayrton Senna, into the corners. Not sure where I picked that up. :D
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Finished regular rally to 100%. Working on historical rally final event before the historical master cup or whatever that's called. 6-8 stages per event, but I think my Lancia Delta S4 is up to the task, even if it's a bit hard to judge braking when it's snowy. But did win that and moving onto... Michigan... fog and stuff.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Baroquen »

So I just picked up both of these in a cheap Codemasters Humble Bundle a few minutes ago. I was coming to ask this very question, and there's a whole thread about it.

I think I'll be starting with DiRT 4. See how that grabs me. Either way - the bundle was pretty inexpensive so I feel like I'll get my money's worth.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Yeah, I think I know Dirt 4 "pretty well" by this point. :D Leave it in "arcade" mode if you don't have a wheel. Handling is made a bit easier. Go through the "academy" where it'll teach you a couple basic maneuvers. But the rest, well, I can explain the rest, I think. :D I'm a gamepad player and I think I'm "okay" with it. :)
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

I was doing so bad in the triple crown rally that despite having only 1 event left out of 5 I decided to start over. The Group B cars are just too much to handle, IMHO, esp the Delta S4. I decided to start over with my Ford Fiesta R5. Never really drove it before (I had to upgrade the parts). Michigan wasn't too bad, actually, once I got the hang of the R5. Handling is quite good, and with a little adjustment I can slide around the corners without too much drama. We'll see if I can keep the momentum in Wales.

But I won Michigan with Delta S4 as well... Hmmm... But I don't think I got a single clean stage with the Delta S4. I did get three clean stages (out of 8) in Michigan with the Fiesta R5. Not to mention Fiesta is a smaller car and easier to get around the course.

UPDATE: I was doing okay in Australia... Finished 3 stages. On the fourth stage, I managed to terminal my car when I somehow full-speed and hit a bridge side pillar. It should have been simple, but I totaled the car and ended up with no points, and thus, last place.

Manage to win Spain by skin of my teeth. My car was a TOTAL wreck by the end, but a win is a win. Guess that leaves Wales and Sweden. And that leaves me in 2nd place overall. Not bad for having 1 event DNF.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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Phew. Won Wales event with a little to spare, and that puts me back on top for championship at 75 points, vs. 73 for second place, despite DNF one of the events. So basically Sweden in the snow is sudden death. Whoever wins, wins the cup.

EDIT Sudden death successful... Won Sweden. ZERO clean stages, but I won, which was the important part. Actually completely knackered the first stage, went to dead last after first few segments. Clawed my way back to 14th before the stage end. Got my way back to 3rd, the 2nd, then finally first before stage 5. Then it is a matter of hanging on to the lead.

Now... Landrush... or RallyCross.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Landrush Grand Championship is 6 races across the world on dirt tracks, each with two heats. Already won the first race (Mexico A). In Landrush, one can usually outbrake the AI.

Just won California A in landrush. Again, outbraking the AI was the key. I actually LAPPED the slowest guy in the 6 lap race. Hahahahaha. And yes, this is 85% difficulty (3 out of 4 bars) Outbrake the AI, do the drift turn where you look as if you're going to crash into the apex but drifted just past it. Shifting braking to the rear helped quite a bit, handbrakes didn't. Not sure who setup this truck before, but let's just say the transmission setup was horrible.

Also won Nevada. That was easy enough.

Won Mexico B by skin of my teeth. Won first heat with no problem. Goofed up final lap in A final and managed to roll the truck just as final lap starts. But no, I'm going to fight till the bitter end. Three trucks passed me, but I got back up to speed, and managed to get on first trucks tail, and caught him slid wide in the first corner. Manage to pass BOTH trucks in the next corner as my strategy is to brake early and SLIDE into the next corner, and it works. Then it's basically don't make another mistake until the lap ends in 10 seconds.

Won Landrush triple crown trophy after winning Nevada and California courses. Actually almost lost Nevada when I flipped the truck upon start and before the first turn when I jumped into traffic and got bounced mid-air. But was able to roll onto my wheels and catch up within an lap and retook the lead in 2 laps, and first heat was only 4 laps so it's like just before the final 2 turns. I'll upload a video later.

Now... RallyCross...
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Did RallyCross event one... Had to do 4 heats, THEN semi-final and final. Won all of them. I was so fast that sometimes I lap the slowest guys on the longer races. The only way I'd lose is if I completely screw up, and I don't do that.

The first stop was the Sweden RX course, and this is one of those where the joker lap was NOT really slower... the joker delta, for me, was less than one second.

Second stop was the French course. This is the one where the joker lap entrance is right off of a 180 turn. But when I can take the joker lap faster than the AI cars taking the regular lap, I can't really lose. Though some of the 6 races had steward calls when I "exceeded track limits". But once I simply slid wrong (turned in a bit too early and slid across the apex rather than skimming it) and the other time a car was in my way and I can't see the track boundaries. Interestingly, I was penalized for neither instance.

That leaves England, Portugal, and Sweden as the final 3 RX locations.

EDIT: Just won England's Lydden Hill. Now that's a proper joker lap where you have to take an long loop with a chicane. But the AI's again, a bit slow, s the only way for me to lose is to drive poorly. I actually goofed on lap 5 of semi-finals where I took the transition of next to last corner wrong, slid wide, and got spun into the wall. But I was instantly in reverse, then did a J-turn and only lost 2.5 seconds. Still won, of course.

Finished Portugal and Sweden, I'm now Triple Crown Winner at 85% difficulty. As the rest are just time attack, block smashing, and that sort, I think I'll stop. Gymkahana block smashing are my least favorite of activities in the Dirt games.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

NOTE: I'm playing WRC6 now, and I've gotten most of the season wrapped up. Just Rally GB and Rally NZ left to go.

After that, I think I'll go back and try Dirt Rally 1.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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Started on Dirt Rally (1). I've started it before, but back then I had a crappy PC and I was NOT enjoying the game AT ALL. Now I can run it at 1080p in ultra and still enjoy over 70 fps on the average. Finished a previous "championship I started with the Mini. Was losing quite badly, with the wrong setup and all. Survive the couple runs, changed the setup to better suit my driving style, and actually ended up 3rd or 4th after 6 stages. I consider that a VERY good result, just getting to know the darn vehicle and driving model.

I admit that I was driving in "arcade handling" mode in Dirt 4, not authentic. Cars are MUCH twitchier in authentic and it's VERY easy to spin the car. May take a while to adjust to the DR driving model.

The problem with the Mini in DR is either it turns too little (at slow speed) or too much (tail loose). Had to play with diff and shocks to get it to behave. Right now, the whole car just go sideways when I try to force it to do a handbrake turn. It turns, but it doesn't MOVE sideways. Seems left-foot-braking and tap the brakes before turning works better. Probably need more rear brake bias.

Did not win, but did place 3rd, which is enough to graduate from "clubman" to "professional". OTOH, the Mini's handling is really weird. Being an FWD car, it seems oddly tail happy, and it has seriously weak brakes. A lot of the difficulty I have with the car was inability to judge a safe braking point given the weak breaks and my attempt to add more rear brake bias (which introduces more instability). On the other hand, I can take some fast corners now, if I brake in time and actually "drift" around the corner... in a classic Mini. On the other hand, if I overcook the corner, I'll just slide sideways well beyond the turn. Sometimes, I need to apply both handbrake and regular brakes.

I'm not sure what to run for the Pro level. I know it had to be RWD, and for DR1, the choices were BMW M3 Evo / Ford Sierra Cosworth / Renault 5 Turbo. While Renault is the best car on paper (short, fast, best power to weight ratio) it had a reputation of being a "loose" car. I think I'll stick to the Sierra Cosworth for now.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Tried to run a full event with an Escort Mk II, the RWD version, and it's so loose it ain't funny. On regular gravel road I can easily do 360's, and I've set rear wheels to max soft and dif to middle, which *should* have cured the looseness, but barely. Basically that means can only accelerate at HALF throttle until I reach a stretch of straight road, then I can go full throttle. And those are hard to come by on a rally stage. And it only gets WORSE in snow or gravel. On snow at least I can brush the banks to slow down, but if I judges wrong I'll high-center the car then it's off to "recover vehicle"

Thus I gave up on DR1 and started playing DR2.

And that lead to some pretty hilarious driving, as DR2 have a different driving model than DR1. I was driving the Flavia, which is FWD (not the Alpine, which was RWD) but it's also a bit more tail happy than I'd like, but I haven't gotten to "setup" yet. I'm just racing, and let's just say, it's not quite what I was expecting either. I did a couple stages, and let's just say, I damaged the car so thoroughly, I had to run the night stage with NO LIGHTS.

And I actually did better this way... I got 2nd place on that stage, much better than any of my previous stages. WTF? I'll upload the replay to prove I ran the entire stage with no lights. It's pretty... intense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w_TS3xxFiI
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Okay, doing the easy cup, 6 events, 4 stages each. Got 6th, 10th, and now... 1st in New Zealand! Didn't goof up that much, and actually won like 3 of 4 stages, the trick is finding the setup that I can handle, but still get the car around corners. With these FWD cars (the Lancia Fluvia) getting the car sideways isn't quite enough. Even with brake bias set to like half in the back, it doesn't quite want to turn. I had to assist it with taps on the handbrakes as well. I can probably drive even faster if I somehow master the trick to handbrake turn into 2's and 1's, but I'm a bit too... chicken, as I can't do it consistently. But the brake bias at 25% left (of middle) means if I did shallow press I slow the car down, and if I did a full brakes the rear breaks loose, which, coupled with a turn, rotates the vehicle quite nicely. The trick is NOT to let the wheel "snap back" as the car wants to straighten so you need to keep the turn UNTIL you don't need it.

But yes, slowly getting the hang of the vehicle. Will need to add some more tuning for the other locations, but currently 4th in championship ain't TOO BAD, given it's my first full cup in DR2.

---

Trying to get my car setup for Michigan, (Northeast US), and it's not easy. There are quite a few three turns, and this FWD car understeers a lot. Forcing it to oversteer also means it SNAPS back into understeer, and that's a bit hard to keep under control. The setup for Australia doesn't quite work for Michigan. OTOH, I guess I'll just to keep it rather "easy", not try to drift around corners.

Just won "New England" (not Michigan, sorry about that). Made no major mistakes across four stages. Overcooked some corners, and can't seem to get my car to super-sharp turns, even with handbrakes. But how often do you run into those? I'll just lose a second or two slowly get the car turned instead of risking too much oversteer around "every" corner. I'm starting to get the hang of Flavia, and with yet another 1st place win (6th / 10th / 1st / 1st) with two events to go I'm up to 2nd in this championship (up from 4th overall). If I don't screw up the next two events I should win this championship, as I am only 3 points behind the current leader, who keeps placing 4th. On the other hand, Argentina is known to be a tough location with super-tight roads and rocks on both sides.

Regarding the difference... I know I was playing D4 in arcade handling, which makes the car much more sticky, and the cars "feel" faster over all, and the road not as detailed. And the handling is definitely more relaxed. I didn't really try to stick it in "simulation" mode in D4. I think I tried it in the DirtFish playground and found it way too twitchy and switched it back quickly.

After doing 12 stages in DR2, I'd say the vehicle feels more planted than DR(1), but way more... float-y than D4 in arcade mode. And took me a while to dial in the setup that I can whip around the course with confidence. Had to use 9 out of 10 shakedowns. But it was worth it.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Didn't win the cup, but did get 2nd place. And that'll have to do. Completely screwed up Australia, those narrow bridges keep ruining me. I set my dif wrong by one setting and I can't take corners. And the gear ratio for transmission tuning is horrible. I have no idea where is my power band, and in a car with only 115 hp, it was laboring its way uphill, and I accidentally set too much gap between 1st and 2nd. It's fine on flat land, but when climbing a hill, it chugs like crazy, and I got engine damage as a result. Final stage in Australia was at night, and I already lost half of my headlights due to lousy driving in stage 3. I had to rerun stage 4 like 4 times (using 4 out of 5 restarts) to get a decent time. Twice I lost the rest of the headlights and it's pretty much over from there. Other times I slid off the side of track into the trees. Final run, I flipped the car ONCE, continued, and managed to make up enough time so I got 2nd overall on stage, and thus, 2nd overall in Australia and cup.

Moving up to clubman level. I hope the Golf R is a little easier to manage than the Fluvia...

Lessons learned? IMHO, the diff has a HUGE effect on drivability. Too far to the right (strong) and you'll barely be able to turn and understeer like crazy. Too far to the left, and your car won't go in a straight line when accelerating and you have to constantly center it.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

Play H2 class (historical 2, FWD) with Golf GTI and let's just say, this car, while nice, still handles a bit weird compared to its equivalent in Dirt 4, and it's STILL a handful to handle. I managed 6th in "New England" overall, and I consider that pretty decent. While there are some good long straights, my lack of precision with gamepad prevented me from going max attack. Only won 1 out of 6 stages, and I think it was a "consolation win" in the final stage. Somehow I was able to perfectly chain together a couple "around the bale" moves and somehow gained a 6 second lead. Previously a stage in heavy rain, where I should have done pretty well in Dirt 4, had me losing by 20 seconds and 10th place in DR2.

I think I'm feeling more frustrated than having fun. I'm just NOT getting the distance queues from Phil the way I'm picking up from my co-driver in Dirt 4. Often in the sharp corners I ended up sliding just past it, or I slow way down looking for it. It seems to be taking me a long time to get used to the car. And this is a Golf.. FWD H2, the rookie car. Can't imagine when I will be good enough to drive a Group B...

I think I'll go play with WRC7 or Sebastian Loeb Rally EVO for a while. Or play something else entirely.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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Playing WRC7, but it's so similar to WRC6, it's a bit... meh. The tracks are a bit different, but you can recognize the bits that are the same.

I decided to handicap myself a little by turning AI to "medium" for more of a challenge. Basically, if I don't screw up, I should win by like 5 seconds, but if I screw up, AI will win. If I screw up a lot, AI will win by a huge margin.

And somehow the JWRC car just does NOT want to do the mall SSS run. It won't turn around the corners on tarmac, or else my input is too "rough" and even a little bit of throttle results in full throttle, so throttle control is horrible. It's manageable on the road, but on tarmac in tight quarters, virtually impossible. I ended up 30+ seconds behind and next to last, which means I screwed up big time, with not enough stages to win back the time. The fact that I got from 10th back up to 3rd by rally end and podium finish means I was doing GREAT. And that's with no nannies except automatic transmission.

And somehow, I was NOT pronounced the JWRC winner, even though I did get a WRC2 contract and was definitely the points leader into the last race of the JWRC season.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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Finished 3 events out of 7 in WRC2 so far. I'm climbed from bottom of pack to 6th place after a good showing in Rally Portugal, where I was behind the leader by just over HALF a second. And that was climbing from 6 to 20 second deficit from previous stages. Got the right car setup where I was able to brake just enough to induce a drift around the corner so I can take 2 and 3 turns if I decelerate properly. And I've seen the track often enough (in JWRC) and even in the same event (they reused part of the track) so I am taking more chances in going flat out into jumps and such. STILL don't like the setup as you don't get shakedown tests (you have to do your own solo test drives outside the rally) but I am getting a bit more familiar with the car, and can probably push the setup a little more. There are a couple places where I held the throttle too long and ended up overrotating, and that's something I have to work on.

Next is Rally Germany, and I really hate their super special stage. Just finished Rally Germany, got 2nd place. Considering this is "medium" AI, I guess I'm doing okay. Difference is less than 10 seconds over multiple stages. Had to restart about 4 times as I keep messing up one thing after another. Reliably making a handbrake turn is one of them as I tend to hold down the throttle, kept the wheel spinning with no traction. Should let go of the throttle, THEN accelerate out of the turn.

Turns out the SSS I really hate is Rally Catalunya, not Germany. I did okay in the SSS in Germany.

Did Rally Catalunya, didn't podium. Got like 4th or 5th. ARGH. Didn't make any major mistakes, but was somehow a whole minute (over 13 km) behind. Rest of the stages are all the same: can't even get into top 3, despite winning the SSS (the one that I hated). Weird, eh?

Did Rally GB, didn't do well here either. Thought I was already driving at my limits except maybe didn't max attack on some hills, but rather took a slightly conservative approach on corners. Ended up like 7th overall, and that's BAD, worst I've ever done. There are just those super-narrow roads that I keep bumping my wheels against the curb. I was afraid of a flat tire. I've also changed to soft compound in order to get a bit more grip, didn't help.

ONE event left in WRC2 season, and let's just say, there's no way I can reach the top. I'm stuck in 5th. I just hope I won't slip any lower.

Finished Rally Australia, the season closer. Got 3rd overall (Podium!) and that's that for that event. Driver's championship... Got 5th overall. That means I can move up to WRC having completed 5/5 objectives, and I am doing so. However, I am not sure I will be enjoying it. I am thinking about calling it quits here. I may want to go play with SLRE a little more, but that thing's too "arcade-y" in the game mechanics to interest me. Sector / Knockout are racing mechanics from yesteryears from 20 years ago (Need for Speed 3: Hot Pursuit) At this rate, I'll give Grid Autosport a little longer spin, then it's off to the new Grid.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Rumpy »

I've now had a chance to play both of them. I had wanted to try Dirt Rally 2.0, and it was free on PS+ a few months ago. Didn't get too far into it before giving up on it, of course it doesn't help that I don't have a wheel. It's always been odd for me to see racing sims like these on consoles, as I suspect console players are less likely to have a wheel compared to players on PC.

About a year or two ago, I managed to grab Dirt 3 on sale before it was removed for sale on Steam and loved the heck of it. So, during the Holiday sales this year, Dirt 4 was one of the things I picked up. Right off the bat though, I notice how similar Dirt 4 is to Dirt Rally 2.0. The feel and tone of the game feel like they've both been developed by the same team, to the point that it almost feels like there aren't that many differences to tell them apart. Even the tracks and locations feel and look pretty much the same. I kind of miss the sense of fun of Dirt 3 and I feel the tracks there felt more uniquely crafted for each different environment. The tracks in both Dirt 4 and DR 2.0 feel like they have the odd hairpin turn and not much else, where Dirt 3 had multi-surface type roads, and it's something I find myself really missing. One of my favourite experiences in Dirt 3 was racing a Ford Mustang at full throttle in Michigan and encountering the tarmac after coming off the gravel, travelling on the tarmac for a bit and back onto gravel, and mastering the track. Unless I'm missing something, where are the multiple road surfaces? The home base doesn't count.

I'm still playing through Dirt 4, but compared to Dirt 3, it's underwhelming to me.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Kasey Chang »

You have to play more locations. Michigan basically is dirt course with pretty gentle curves and sometimes, fog. One thing to note: Dirt 4 randomly generates tracks based on set pieces that merge seamlessly, while Dirt Rally has actual set tracks, not assembled. So technically, no two Dirt 4 tracks are the same, but they start to feel really similar after a while.

To experience more road surfaces you need to try more locations. IIRC, Australia is dirt and some verticality and narrow roads, Spain is narrow asphalt with a ton of turns. Michigan is mostly dirt and gentle turns. Sweden is basically snow with some 90 degree turns, some high and low speed snow, and Wales has a LOT of turns in forest and dirt.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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So, it seems locations can only be single surface now? That's disappointing. I was looking forward to the different surfaces within track locations. It makes them more varied, and I'd say having them be just a single surface is a tad unrealistic.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

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Rumpy wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:23 pm So, it seems locations can only be single surface now? That's disappointing. I was looking forward to the different surfaces within track locations. It makes them more varied, and I'd say having them be just a single surface is a tad unrealistic.
There are some changing surfaces, but each location has "primarily" one surface type with splotches of the other type, IIRC. Wales definitely had mostly dirt with some tarmac that I recall, with with New Zealand. I think Michigan is one of those maps that have like 90% of 1 and 10% of the other that you'd barely notice.
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Re: Codemasters DiRT Rally 2.0 versus DiRT 4

Post by Rumpy »

Yeah, I've noticed some of those patches now, I think. Feels like a downgrade, IMHO. One of the more obvious surface changes is when the town shows up, and I wish there'd be more of those for the different countries. Dirt 3 also had more in the way of scenery. As it is, it just feels like they have a lot of acute turns and not much in the way of variety. Meanwhile, I've actually been really enjoying the Rallycross due to the surface changes, so I know the engine is capable of it.
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