Help me finish an RPG for once [I DID IT!]

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:00 pm

I have a long standing history of not being able to finish RPGs. I am classifying RPGs here as separate from ARPGs as those games where you can't rely solely on reflex to beat your opponents. You must understand the battle system and use strategy to defeat opponents, and often can pause the action to think about it (although this is not required).

To demonstrate, here are ARPGs that I have finished:

Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 1 and 2
Mass Effect 1-3
Torchlight
Diablo 3
Fable 2

Here are RPGs I have put significant time into but haven't finished:
KOTOR
Dragon Age Origins
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 12
Baldur's Gate
Fallout 1

What I'm looking for is an RPG that I am likely to finish - one that is not going to be too long, too difficult or too complicated. I have lots in my backlog, but I'm very open to buying something it means I will finally finish an RPG

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:10 pm

Half-minute Hero?

Cylus Maxii · Post by **Cylus Maxii** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:25 pm

I looked at your games library in Steam. You have almost 400 games. I'm not sure I can recommend anything you don't already have. I'm sure its in there...somewhere.

EzeKieL · Post by **EzeKieL** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:26 pm

Divinity 2: The Dragon Knight Saga?

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:08 pm

Since you seem to like action in your RPG, try The Witcher 2. Another couple to look at would be Risen and Kingdoms of Amalur, although both of those skew closer to Action than RPG.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:20 pm

I have started Witcher 1 before, as well as Risen, but aren't those both ARPGs according to my definition? One-to-one relationship between your clicks/button presses and attacks?

Jaddison · Post by **Jaddison** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:35 pm

I would try SWOTR free to play and do one of the story lines. If all you did was the story line it would be fairly short for an RPG.

How about Planescape torment? If you get the mods available it is very playable and not that long

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:39 pm

Jaddison wrote:I would try SWOTR free to play and do one of the story lines. If all you did was the story line it would be fairly short for an RPG.

How about Planescape torment? If you get the mods available it is very playable and not that long

I've played through the Jedi storyline in SWTOR, but I wouldn't really consider that a traditional RPG. I do have the disc version of Planescape.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:46 pm

Cthulu Saves the World. You can get both it and its spiritual predecessor Breath of Death VII for a grand total of $0.99 on Steam.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:52 pm

Teggy wrote:I have started Witcher 1 before, as well as Risen, but aren't those both ARPGs according to my definition? One-to-one relationship between your clicks/button presses and attacks?

Mmm yes, I read that but I would differentiate an RPG from an ARPG more on the roleplaying elements and not the combat. With the exception of the Mass Effects, the games you listed are almost completely linear and offer you little or no choice.

In your RPG list, all of those games except Final Fantasy (Which are JRPGs and entirely different anyways) offer you lots of choice to alter the outcome of the story. The actual combat mechanics are fairly irrelevant if you just want a true RPG.

Alternately, if you don’t care about story or choice something like Legend of Grimrock might be up your alley.

And I’ll second Cthulu Saves the World if you want a game in the JRPG style. It’s one of the few JRPGs I really enjoyed.

Jaddison · Post by **Jaddison** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:06 pm

Teggy if yo are considering Planescape I would suggest GoG version with mods that are linked on the GoG forum...cheap and rigged for Windows versions and the mods make it more playable on modern machines plus fix some things

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:07 pm

OK, good to know. And to answer the other question, yes, story is very important. Probably the main reason I play games.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:13 pm

Teggy wrote:OK, good to know. And to answer the other question, yes, story is very important. Probably the main reason I play games.

If story is important, Planescape Torment is probably the best option. It has an outstanding story line and has quite a bit of humor thrown in with the skull (Mort - I think is his name) cracking wise at key times.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:31 pm

theohall wrote:
Teggy wrote:OK, good to know. And to answer the other question, yes, story is very important. Probably the main reason I play games.
If story is important, Planescape Torment is probably the best option. It has an outstanding story line and has quite a bit of humor thrown in with the skull (Mort - I think is his name) cracking wise at key times.

If I do go that route, am I correct that you are supposed to die and start over a lot in that game? I did boot it up one time a long time ago and remember not quite getting it.

Reemul · Post by **Reemul** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:10 pm

Teggy wrote:
theohall wrote:
Teggy wrote:OK, good to know. And to answer the other question, yes, story is very important. Probably the main reason I play games.
If story is important, Planescape Torment is probably the best option. It has an outstanding story line and has quite a bit of humor thrown in with the skull (Mort - I think is his name) cracking wise at key times.
If I do go that route, am I correct that you are supposed to die and start over a lot in that game? I did boot it up one time a long time ago and remember not quite getting it.

Dying isn't a problem, like respawning in an online game, in fact some quests need you tto die to move on as well.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:02 pm

How about AD&D like with BG? Can I be ignorant of that?

Jaddison · Post by **Jaddison** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:15 pm

With the original Baldurs Gate the update/upgrade is out....i bought it just to support the team that made it. Fallout and Fallout 2 had good stories. Martian Dreams is free on GoG...if you don't care about graphics at all it had a pretty interesting story.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:25 pm

Jaddison wrote:With the original Baldurs Gate the update/upgrade is out....i bought it just to support the team that made it. Fallout and Fallout 2 had good stories. Martian Dreams is free on GoG...if you don't care about graphics at all it had a pretty interesting story.

Sorry, I mean do you need to know D&D rules for Planescape?

Jaddison · Post by **Jaddison** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:25 pm

I am working my way through and I am pretty D&D clueless

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:31 pm

It might help if you're a min/maxer, but for normal play it shouldn't be any more necessary than it is for you to understand all the game mechanics before starting any other game.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:54 pm

Teggy wrote:
Jaddison wrote:With the original Baldurs Gate the update/upgrade is out....i bought it just to support the team that made it. Fallout and Fallout 2 had good stories. Martian Dreams is free on GoG...if you don't care about graphics at all it had a pretty interesting story.
Sorry, I mean do you need to know D&D rules for Planescape?

The only thing you absolutely need to know is that higher is better except for THAC0, AC, and Saves, where lower is better.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:05 pm

You don't really need a background in D&D to go through Planescape, but you should understand that your ability scores impact your ability to do stuff in game that's not directly related to combat, and that they follow the rule of 2: each two points gets you a +1 modifier to whatever that ability score affects. If you want more dialogue options, you'll want to concentrate on improving (one of) intelligence, wisdom and charisma. If you want to be able to beat the crap out of people, improve your strength. Your armor class (AC, basically defense rating) will always be abysmally high (which is bad because you want a low AC) because your character refuses to wear armor for some reason. Your buddies aren't going to be much help, either - you want to avoid fighting as much as possible anyway since the fighting is "just" standard infinity engine fighting.

You can switch your character classes out more or less at will (rogue, fighter and mage) once you find the appropriate people to train you.

As far as a recommended RPG, based on your list of ones you've finished, you should be looking at Dragon Age 2. The reason I say Dragon Age 2 and not 1 is that it's got significantly less equipment management - you can only equip weapons on your buddies, instead of weapons AND armor AND fifty different trinkets. It's very streamlined, compared to Dragon Age Origins. You go find your quest guy with the exclamation point over his head, kill some rats, share some witty banter with your pals and get some loot. You can even turn on auto-leveling and turn it to some difficulty level without friendly fire so you can just sling fireballs and not worry about frying your buddies. Some might say that it's "dumbed down" and "consolized" or whatever, but, other than the retarded-looking darkspawn and incredibly obvious asset reuse (I think I visited the same cave complex about thirty times over the course of the game, they just set up slightly different road blocks), I enjoyed it. The only reason I'd recommend against DA2 is because you'll have to set up that "Origin" bullshit that EA has, so if that's a dealbreaker, you might want to skip it.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:50 pm

LOL, I do have Origin running on my computer, but I have to play DA1 before DA2. I'm going to finish that game someday! I've started it multiple times and even got through the fade twice, but I've stopped a number of times, sometimes due to difficulty and others due to feeling I had built my character horribly (I tried being a healer once and that didn't work out very well) and chosen my companions poorly.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:12 pm

Be ready for a lot of reading if you go with Planescape. Part of what makes the storyline so great also makes for some supremely text-heavy sections. It was enough to drive me away from the game when a dialogue with someone in a random tavern started to feel like a short novel--just wasn't in the mood.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:56 am

NickAragua wrote:You don't really need a background in D&D to go through Planescape, but you should understand that your ability scores impact your ability to do stuff in game that's not directly related to combat, and that they follow the rule of 2: each two points gets you a +1 modifier to whatever that ability score affects.

Didn't Planescape use the 2nd edition rules? If so, the ability modifiers were much more abstract than that.

Really, all you have to remember is that armor class needs to be low. Other than that, bonuses are bonuses. +1 swords aren't as good as +3 swords, and +2 armor isn't as good as +4, just like in every other game out there. +x to saves, +x to stats, +x to health, +x anything is good, -x is bad.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:23 am

Well, I got it all installed with all the mods last night. Now all I have to do is play it!

Jaddison · Post by **Jaddison** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:25 am

I am slowly making my way through as well.....I may be 15 minutes in

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:36 am

I'm trying to figure out why you didn't finish Fallout 1?

As a serial non-finisher myself, that is one title that I not only finished, but actually replayed (soooo rare) due to it's great story lines and general awesomeness. Any ideas WHY you didn't finish that? Might give clues about what to recommend next.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:49 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:I'm trying to figure out why you didn't finish Fallout 1?

As a serial non-finisher myself, that is one title that I not only finished, but actually replayed (soooo rare) due to it's great story lines and general awesomeness. Any ideas WHY you didn't finish that? Might give clues about what to recommend next.

I've tried playing it a number of times. Twice I have made it to the big city where you can buy the water supply if you have enough money. I think the first time I got a bit overwhelmed because there were like five different directions you can go from there (join a caravan or go visit the brotherhood or get jobs etc.) and I didn't know which one to do. The second time I picked up a quest to go kill some monster in a nearby cave and it kept killing me. I then got discouraged and distracted by some other game.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:49 pm

Jaddison wrote:I am slowly making my way through as well.....I may be 15 minutes in

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty slow

Gavin · Post by **Gavin** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:09 pm

Teggy wrote:---SNIP---

What I'm looking for is an RPG that I am likely to finish - one that is not going to be too long, too difficult or too complicated. I have lots in my backlog, but I'm very open to buying something it means I will finally finish an RPG

Hmm, some of those are all over the place where you should have liked one if you liked the others. I'm stiking to stuff that is "there" artistically speaking and not as dated as stuff like Planescape.

Have you tried tactical RPGs at all? The only thing I see on your list that is close may be Fallout 1?

Final Fantasy Tactics (if this game was a girl I'd marry her no matter how much weight she's gained). NOT advanced! The Lion Wars.
Tactics Ogre (kinda long, so maybe not).
Front Mission 3 or 4 (I haven't played four but this is basically a tactics game with mechs).
XCOM is quite popular here, but I haven't played it and don't know what kind of RPG elements are there.

Those JRPG's look bad for you...
FF8 and 9 were good in my opinion but if you didn't beat 7 or 12 then I guess they're too long. Did you play FF7 when it came out? Otherwise it's quite dated. I prefer 7, 8, and 9 to anything after 10.

I'm surprised you played through Mass Effect but not KOTOR. Similar in a lot of ways but ME is definitely better.

I mean, honestly from that list I'd be much better at recommending ARPGs you didn't list:
1. Skyrim.
2. Fallout 3
3. Fallout 3 New Vegas
4. Fable 3

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:23 pm

I feel pretty confident in being able to beat ARPGs (Fallout 3/NV and Elder Scrolls games are all in my backlog for when I get to them). I've just always gotten stuck on what I am defining here as an "RPG". I've tried KOTOR a bunch of times and have gotten as far as getting off the second planet. In games where I can't simply run around and beat on/shoot guys, I tend to struggle with difficulty at some point and that's often where things go off the rails.

And I don't really like SRPGs. Too much micro-managing. Although I will try XCOM at some point as many people have said that they don't like SRPGs but they loved XCOM.

Gavin · Post by **Gavin** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:26 pm

Teggy wrote:I feel pretty confident in being able to beat ARPGs (Fallout 3/NV and Elder Scrolls games are all in my backlog for when I get to them). I've just always gotten stuck on what I am defining here as an "RPG". I've tried KOTOR a bunch of times and have gotten as far as getting off the second planet. In games where I can't simply run around and beat on/shoot guys, I tend to struggle with difficulty at some point and that's often where things go off the rails.

FYI, if you know where the final level is on Fallout 1 you can go straight there and beat the game in no time.

And I don't really like SRPGs. Too much micro-managing. Although I will try XCOM at some point as many people have said that they don't like SRPGs but they loved XCOM.

Which ones have you tried?

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:29 pm

Gavin wrote: Which ones have you tried?

Hm...well I know I tried FF Tactics at some point. Advance Wars. Not many others - I tend to just look at them, see a grid and get turned off. I liked Valkryia Chronicles, be even then I didn't get more than about halfway through.

I have King's Bounty and have been meaning to try it at some point.

Gavin · Post by **Gavin** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:31 pm

Teggy wrote:Hm...well I know I tried FF Tactics at some point. Advance Wars. Not many others - I tend to just look at them, see a grid and get turned off. I liked Valkryia Chronicles, be even then I didn't get more than about halfway through.

I have King's Bounty and have been meaning to try it at some point.

I guess Xcom may be the best place to start there. Good luck.

(I assume by FF Tactics you mean the one I recommended and not just FF Tactics Advanced which can die in a ditch for all I care)

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:18 pm

Gavin wrote:
(I assume by FF Tactics you mean the one I recommended and not just FF Tactics Advanced which can die in a ditch for all I care)

It was the OG PS1 version.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:32 pm

Wow. FF Tactics. That was one of the densest god damn games I've ever played, and I've played "Learn How to Program in Assembly Language". It looks pretty standard on the surface - just have a core team of guys, upgrade their equipment as you level up, and you're good to go. But no. They slap a skill leveling system on there, some weird multi-class system, and you only get XP for a character if you actually use him and... well, let's just say that I played this when I was in college (we're looking at having 8+ hours a day of free time here) and I gave up on it. If you didn't finish FF7, you're not going to finish Tactics.

If you're willing to go back to the classics and fire up your SNES emulator, I'd highly recommend Chrono Trigger. It's nominally an RPG, but the stat progression is very linear. The only real choice you have is what buddies you bring along (which influence what two and three-man abilities you can fire off). The main story line was kind of stupid, but (at the time) I really enjoyed the interaction between your buddies. I suspect, now that it's fifteen years later, that I wouldn't identify quite as well with the dumbass teenagers.

While we're on the SNES, you might want to give Shadowrun a try. It's *very* rpg-lite, almost crossing over into the "adventure" genre. The controls are pretty atrocious though (e.g. when you want to shoot your gun, you have to press the 'aim' button, then slooooowwwly move your cursor over to your target, then press the 'fire' button. And god help you if your target moves).

There was also a Shadowrun game on the SEGA Genesis that had an overhead perspective and was a little more real-time but had plenty of RPG in it as well. I didn't play that one too much.

Finally, a fairly light-weight "classic" RPG on the PC is Septerra Core. I say light-weight because, once again, the character progression is very linear, so you won't need to burden yourself with choices. The difficulty level is farking outlandish though - you just have to grind and grind and grind like a millstone until you're high enough level (and have good enough equipment) to take on whatever area you're currently working on. I'll be honest, I couldn't finish it because a) I got stuck in one of the later stages and b) when I tried to get back into it I couldn't remember what the hell I was doing and there's no quest log or anything like that. That being said, I had fun and it's a pretty cool setting.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:43 pm

I have Chrono Trigger for the DS, so I can try firing up that again sometime (I've never gone past the opening area really). Oh yeah, another RPG I gave up on was Golden Sun.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:39 pm

Well I have taken the hardest step so far, starting up the game! Played for about 1.5 hours until

Spoiler:

I encountered one of those situations that has given me issues with RPGs before, which is encountering multiple paths through the story and kind of breaking the dialog progress based on what I had done:

Spoiler:

It's this sort of thing that gives me a lot of paralysis with RPGs. I guess I just need to accept what happens and let the story flow (hopefully not being gimped because I neglected to do something).

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:51 pm

A well-designed RPG won't punish you for making decisions. Don't worry about the 'right' decision, or the best decision. Instead, think about what the character (or you, if you prefer) would do in that situation and do it - then live with the effects. Having your decisions have an impact on the story and the world is part of what makes a modern RPG so appealing.