Master of Magic

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noblues
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by noblues »

and GOG has it on sale for a little over $4 through Monday (10/11).
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by humorguy »

noblues wrote:and GOG has it on sale for a little over $4 through Monday (10/11).
Quite a bargain on a lot of great games almost every weekend, but MoM for $4.13 is the bargain of the decade!
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malichai11
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by malichai11 »

Hrnac wrote:
Finalgenesis wrote:If only it was easily moddable ...
There is MoM work being done these days. Check out this site:

http://www.dragonsword.com/

-Hrnac
Unfortunately, that website has been dead for a couple of months.
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AWS260
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by AWS260 »

Caster of Magic.
One thing led to another and, before Caster of Magic was declared official DLC last month, Seravy’s last version update was a novelistic 168,000 words of cumulative tweaks, improvements and additions carefully crafted over five years.

That 168,000 words documents an extraordinarily ambitious project, reflecting a level of depth and dedication that’s been celebrated and enormously well-received by an equally invested fanbase, the sort of people who continue to play a game two and a half decades on. Caster of Magic addresses bugs and imbalances that have been discussed and debated countless times and adds a host of features, from interface improvements to new buildings to a radically revamped AI.
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El Guapo
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by El Guapo »

AWS260 wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:12 pm Caster of Magic.
One thing led to another and, before Caster of Magic was declared official DLC last month, Seravy’s last version update was a novelistic 168,000 words of cumulative tweaks, improvements and additions carefully crafted over five years.

That 168,000 words documents an extraordinarily ambitious project, reflecting a level of depth and dedication that’s been celebrated and enormously well-received by an equally invested fanbase, the sort of people who continue to play a game two and a half decades on. Caster of Magic addresses bugs and imbalances that have been discussed and debated countless times and adds a host of features, from interface improvements to new buildings to a radically revamped AI.
For an article that long, it's surprisingly vague about what exactly the mod adds or changes, beyond "makes it much better."

Still exciting, though.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Hrdina »

AWS260 wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:12 pm Caster of Magic.
One thing led to another and, before Caster of Magic was declared official DLC last month, Seravy’s last version update was a novelistic 168,000 words of cumulative tweaks, improvements and additions carefully crafted over five years.

That 168,000 words documents an extraordinarily ambitious project, reflecting a level of depth and dedication that’s been celebrated and enormously well-received by an equally invested fanbase, the sort of people who continue to play a game two and a half decades on. Caster of Magic addresses bugs and imbalances that have been discussed and debated countless times and adds a host of features, from interface improvements to new buildings to a radically revamped AI.
Someone cast Resurrection on this thread?
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gbasden
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by gbasden »

I bought it! The update FAQ is quite long and looks great. Now I need to remember how to play a 26 year old game. :)
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TheMix
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by TheMix »

I'm tempted. I wishlisted it. However, Deity Empires does an excellent job of scratching the itch. Though I do wish the AI could be a little smarter. If the AI in MoM is solid, it may be worth playing it. And that screenshot of Torin brought back memories. :D Buffing heroes is TIGHT!

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Re: Master of Magic

Post by gbasden »

I seriously would pay $50 if someone would simply update the graphics and sound, leaving all of the underlying mechanics *exactly* as they are. I do love this game, but it is hard to deal with the ancient presentation.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Jag »

gbasden wrote: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:36 am I seriously would pay $50 if someone would simply update the graphics and sound, leaving all of the underlying mechanics *exactly* as they are. I do love this game, but it is hard to deal with the ancient presentation.
That's the only thing holding me back from buying it now. I just can't get past the ancient graphics when I have so many other 4x games to play.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Fardaza »

Bought it. Won twice and lost twice on normal.
Even with the old graphics, it still rocks!
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TheMix
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by TheMix »

Do flying, invulnerable Paladins still rule? That was one of my favorites. A stack of those was unbeatable.

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Re: Master of Magic

Post by El Guapo »

My favorite borderline hacks were to either start with all death books, and pick "Wraiths" as a starting spell, or to start with all life books and pick "Avatar" as a starting spell. Wraiths and the Avatar hero (Toren the Chosen, or something?) were both completely unstoppable in the early game (and it was a lot of fun to run around with the massive undead armies that wraiths create in the early game).
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Fardaza
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Fardaza »

TheMix wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:23 pm Do flying, invulnerable Paladins still rule? That was one of my favorites. A stack of those was unbeatable.
I didn't have any flying ones in the game I played as the Humans. They were still pretty great though. However, I remember reading that paladins were nerfed in the updated version. I haven't played that version yet, only the original game.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Hyena »

Flying Death Knights were so OP. Any time they killed someone, they replenished their ranks. Nothing melee could hit them, and they could fly around the map at their leisure and mop the floor with everyone, all while topping their health off.
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dbemont
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by dbemont »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:13 pm For an article that long, it's surprisingly vague about what exactly the mod adds or changes, beyond "makes it much better."

Still exciting, though.
I've spent the past few days playing Caster of Magic for Windows pretty much non-stop. I have not read the article being referred to, but I can understand why it would have to be vague, since it involves myriad little changes rather than a list of new features. Spells have been added and deleted, factions have been adjusted, small but helpful quality of life changes have been made to the UI. Retorts have been adjusted, you get one additional "pick" (book or retort) at the start, and the benefits of various numbers of spell books have been adjusted.

I think the most important point is that the AI will now gives you a run for your money. On "normal" difficulty, it lets you know it is there. And if you move up to "fair" difficulty or above, it becomes increasingly aggressive and strategic. In the original, you could pretty much run the board with a single trick like halfling slingers, but now the AI not only knows enough to do the same, it also will use appropriate counters such as Guardian Wind.

Some over-the-top imbalances have been eliminated (paladins' immunity to magic!), but that's just as well since otherwise the revived AI would be sending a horde of the unstoppable units through your realm. On the other hand, there are several new powerful strategies to pursue, but Seravy has been careful to include counters for each.

Another overarching change is that the game balance has been tilted noticeably further towards magic. I know that I often played a game centered around regular units and did quite well, but now fantastic creatures, damage spells, or buffing spells for regular units pretty much have to be at the center of your strategy, unless you play at a very low level of difficulty.

The game also starts faster. Everyone starts with a city, two military units, and two settlers. I think that this was one of many changes designed to help the AI, but it also means that the action begins noticeably sooner.

At this point, Caster of Magic for Windows is my game of the year (for 2021, not for 1994) despite the obviously dated graphics. I'm finding it tense, engrossing fun. Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but there is an annotated manual here
https://seravy.x10.mx/CasterofMagic/CASTEROFMAGIC.HTML

And a stream here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygMWqmGRiwE&t=2828s

It's going to be very interesting when Slitherine releases the totally re-done Master of Magic by Muha Games (Thea) but in the meantime, I'm obsessed with this one.
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TheMix
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by TheMix »

That sounds really intriguing.

And I'd totally forgotten about halfling slingers. You could run the table with those. Their Luck allowed them to survive things that they shouldn't.

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Re: Master of Magic

Post by dbemont »

TheMix wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:55 am That sounds really intriguing.

And I'd totally forgotten about halfling slingers. You could run the table with those. Their Luck allowed them to survive things that they shouldn't.
Their luck, plus the number of figures. Number of figures as a variable is such a subtle, but excellent device in that game, as it interacts with buffs and level ups.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by El Guapo »

I also remember that you could easily run the table by starting with 11 death magic books, picking "wraiths" as your rare, and focusing on summoning as many wraiths as possible ASAP. Then use their 'drain' ability to make a massive army of undead early.

I wonder whether that still works or not.
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LordMortis
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by LordMortis »

Hmmm... It's been a very long time. So I can get the original game for $5.99 and the mod for $2.99 and be able to play both or just get build in improvements alone for $6.99. That might just happen soon.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by baelthazar »

LordMortis wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:36 am Hmmm... It's been a very long time. So I can get the original game for $5.99 and the mod for $2.99 and be able to play both or just get build in improvements alone for $6.99. That might just happen soon.
This is very confusing, but I think you need to have this one ($5.99):
https://www.matrixgames.com/game/master ... classic/pc

And this one ($6.99):
https://www.matrixgames.com/game/master ... or-windows

If you want the best possible version that runs natively in Windows. You can't just buy the $6.99 one, without the initial game.
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LordMortis
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by LordMortis »

I didn't think I was confused before but now I might be.
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dbemont
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by dbemont »

El Guapo wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:25 am I also remember that you could easily run the table by starting with 11 death magic books, picking "wraiths" as your rare, and focusing on summoning as many wraiths as possible ASAP. Then use their 'drain' ability to make a massive army of undead early.

I wonder whether that still works or not.
No, the best you can do is take 10 spell books of one kind, and that allows you to pick two uncommon spells which will be available for research on turn one. However, most if not all spell schools are set up so that there is an uncommon spell which, once researched, will be very powerful against most anything you are likely to see at that point in the game. But not so powerful that you have carte blanche to conquer all the nodes, etc.
LordMortis wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:22 pm I didn't think I was confused before but now I might be.
Caster of Magic for Windows is basically a DLC for the original Master of Magic. It requires the base game to work.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1557 ... r_Windows/
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Jeff V »

I haven't thought about this game in a long time. There were several attempts to do a MoM2 but never with the original IP so they all turned into something else. Even Sid Meier was teasing about it when I first met him, leaving us to hope Firaxis would do it right but that never came to pass.

I'm not inclined to buy anything these days...is David Heath still in charge at Matrix? Our relationship was cordial but he always gave me freebies when I approached him after leaving The Wargamer.
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baelthazar
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by baelthazar »

Jeff V wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:00 pm I'm not inclined to buy anything these days...is David Heath still in charge at Matrix? Our relationship was cordial but he always gave me freebies when I approached him after leaving The Wargamer.
David Heath left Matrix and is CEO at Lock'n Load publishing, IIRC. Erik Rutkins is still at the helm at Matrix, although they were bought by Slitherine several years ago (so, they are technically a shared shop with Slitherine). They have been nothing but nice to me, but there has been some friction in the community about the Slitherine folks. That said, Slitherine's clout has allowed them to acquire several key properties, like Games Workshop (WH40K) and Master of Magic.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Jeff V »

baelthazar wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:19 pm
Jeff V wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:00 pm I'm not inclined to buy anything these days...is David Heath still in charge at Matrix? Our relationship was cordial but he always gave me freebies when I approached him after leaving The Wargamer.
David Heath left Matrix and is CEO at Lock'n Load publishing, IIRC. Erik Rutkins is still at the helm at Matrix, although they were bought by Slitherine several years ago (so, they are technically a shared shop with Slitherine). They have been nothing but nice to me, but there has been some friction in the community about the Slitherine folks. That said, Slitherine's clout has allowed them to acquire several key properties, like Games Workshop (WH40K) and Master of Magic.
Thanks for the update! Boy, am I out of the loop! I do recall getting Linkedin suggestions on Heath, with his job being CEO of Lock'n'Load publishing. I presume this is a partnership with Mark Walker (who I haven't heard from in years, even though I ghost wrote most of a book for him).

I always liked the folks at Slitherine, even if I didn't think they were particularly good at making games. I used to be connected to Ian on one of the social media platforms, but haven't heard from him in a long time. I really liked that they employed to some capacity Nik Fincher -- when I was with The Wargamer, I published numerous, well-researched Great Battles scenarios created by him, and I think we co-authored a few articles. He was in an unfortunate situation in Indonesia, but made the best of it.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Max Peck »

Slitherine's Master Of Magic remake set for early autumn release
The remake of 1994’s 4X strategy classic Master Of Magic should be out in early autumn, MuHa Games and publisher Slitherine announced today. The release window was revealed during Slitherine’s Home Of Wargamers livestream, which showed off the game's revamped visuals with some minotaur-on-bear battle action. There were also plenty of cockatrices.

Much of the core of the original turn-based Master Of Magic from 28 years ago is still present and correct in the remake, just with a snazzier modern graphical presentation. You’ll still be picking from 14 different fantastical starter races ranging from the insectoid Klackon and scaly Lizardmen to Tolkienesque Halflings, Orcs and High Elves. There’s 14 unique wizards too, including OG sorcerous bad boy Merlin. One change to Master Of Magic that probably won’t bother anyone is alterations to some of the town names – no longer will you spot Birmingham and Coventry in the game’s two planes of Arcanus and Myrror.
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Alefroth
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Alefroth »

Looks pretty darn faithful.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Baroquen »

I thought so too. Looking forward to this one!
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Hyena
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Hyena »

Day one for me. Don't care if I have to patch the hell out of it.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by TheMix »

Hyena wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 10:45 am Day one for me. Don't care if I have to patch the hell out of it.
:D

Yeah. I played the crap out of this game back in the day. So I might have to ignore my rule about paying full price. Though I'll probably try and hold out for a sale.

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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Jolor »

Wishlisted. I never played the original but looks great!
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by dbemont »

Got to admit, I am a bit disappointed in that this is apparently just a pure re-make (with better graphics).

The original worked in its time, and I loved it. But it was built on the premise that the world around you was a dangerous place, but you could outsmart the system with any one of a bunch of exploits (paladins, for example) and the game then became easy. And when I say easy, I mean trivially easy. No need to have any real understanding of the systems at work in the game. Because the AI opponents were not just inept in a typical AI way, they were not set up to use any of the exploits -- which makes sense, because it would have been no fun playing against an AI using tactics that had no counters.

I think this worked back, in large part, because the internet had not yet flooded us with tips for each game, so your exploit had the glow of being your own secret, or at least the result of inside info. But still, I do remember that each playthrough, the thrill of becoming superman was brief, followed by a lengthy period of tedium, finding all the enemy cities to wipe them out.

Seravy and his Caster of Magic fixed this. There are still very powerful strategies, but you have to be concerned that the AI might well use them too, if you don't do something to prevent that. So the intense interest lasts for the entire game. (Also, diplomacy actually works.)

I have played both the original and Caster within the past year, and honestly I don't think I would be able to go back to the original, no matter how beautiful the graphics. Maybe the new version will be moddable, and Caster or a similar upgrade will appear. But until then, I don't think this is going to offer much for me.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Max Peck »

I've seen people arguing both for and against this being a pure remake, so I don't believe that they can please everyone out of the gate unless they essentially design 2 games in one, with both classic and rebalanced modes.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Fardaza »

I have the GOG version and don't see a DLC option for Caster. I see that it's available for about $6 on Steam, but that means I'd have to buy the base game again also. Am I missing something?
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by dbemont »

Fardaza wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 7:22 pm I have the GOG version and don't see a DLC option for Caster. I see that it's available for about $6 on Steam, but that means I'd have to buy the base game again also. Am I missing something?
I got mine through Steam, but I'm seeing this: https://www.gog.com/en/game/master_of_m ... or_windows
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by dbemont »

Max Peck wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 10:43 am I've seen people arguing both for and against this being a pure remake, so I don't believe that they can please everyone out of the gate unless they essentially design 2 games in one, with both classic and rebalanced modes.
Oh, I am not saying I am angry at them for their decision, just that I am personally disappointed.
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Re: Master of Magic

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dbemont wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 7:28 pm
Fardaza wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 7:22 pm I have the GOG version and don't see a DLC option for Caster. I see that it's available for about $6 on Steam, but that means I'd have to buy the base game again also. Am I missing something?
I got mine through Steam, but I'm seeing this: https://www.gog.com/en/game/master_of_m ... or_windows
Thanks for that link! I did miss that.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Max Peck »

dbemont wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 7:34 pm
Max Peck wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 10:43 am I've seen people arguing both for and against this being a pure remake, so I don't believe that they can please everyone out of the gate unless they essentially design 2 games in one, with both classic and rebalanced modes.
Oh, I am not saying I am angry at them for their decision, just that I am personally disappointed.
I didn't mean to imply that you were angry about it, I just meant that even if they went in the direction that you'd prefer, there'd be a different set of fans that would be disappointed in the decision.
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Re: Master of Magic

Post by Hyena »

Tomorrow is release day for the remake, yeah? Anyone else in on first day besides me?
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