[Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

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Holman
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman »

Paingod wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:25 am Hopefully he'll follow an Electronics Arts sales model. Layers -2 through +2 will be included with the base game. Each additional layer is unlocked for $2.99.
99 cents per Dwarf (requires permadeath mode)!
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis »

Time is still subjective and I'm getting the itch. Anyone play recently have a recommendation for tile sets and setting the game up?
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by hitbyambulance »

still at least another 11 years of development before v1.0 release
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman »

LordMortis wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:32 pm Time is still subjective and I'm getting the itch. Anyone play recently have a recommendation for tile sets and setting the game up?
I don't use tile sets (I know, I know...), but the first step after unzipping the game is to go into Data\Init and read through two text files ("d_init.txt" and "init.txt"), changing whatever settings seem good to you. They're helpfully commented so you can see what everything does.

I don't change much, but I turn off the intro movie and the music, and I change "Varied_Ground_Tiles" to "No" to reduce clutter. (If you use a tile set, you won't need to do that.) I also sometimes set a lower-than-default population cap just so I can get my fortress running with a smaller crew before being overwhelmed by hordes of migrants.

I set "Show_Flow_Amounts" to "Yes" as this makes it easy to see how deep water (or lava or whatever) is: a tile full of water will show a number from 1-7 indicating depth. This matters because I channel water into my fortress and through waterfalls to a cistern, draining off overflow into the caverns, so I need to be aware of depth and possible overflow.

The most annoying step is customizing the interface. This isn't done in text files but in the game itself (Esc --> Key Bindings from the main menu).

The default controls seem to be designed around doing almost everything from the Numpad, but I find that to be cramped, so I reset some commands to PageUp/PageDown and some arrow keys, etc. It requires being careful not to leave two commands mapped to the same key. It's probably smarter just to get comfortable with the defaults.

The only outside program I use is "Dwarf Therapist." This runs a real-time spreadsheet of all kinds of stats for all of your dwarves, so you can easily see who is best at what, whom you should draft for your military, who's unhappy for whatever reason, etc. It's way easier than trying to parse your dwarves from the game interface, and it's especially useful when migrants arrive. Hopefully something like this might make it into the Steam version.

Anyway, DF is a pain in the ass and you'll probably get a headache and shouldn't play it. I always quit for months after having a good fortress turn into a mess, and I'm not even a very ambitious player. But the game is just so good at making stories.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis »

Holman wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:53 am I don't use tile sets (I know, I know...), but the first step after unzipping the game is to go into Data\Init and read through two text files ("d_init.txt" and "init.txt"), changing whatever settings seem good to you. They're helpfully commented so you can see what everything does.
I need a good tileset. My mind can't handle the rougelike ASCII in such a cluttered fashion.

I'm think I'm going to try

PeridexisErrant's Starter Pack 0.47.04-r06, cross reference through the wiki. We'll see how intuitive and lazy it is. "The Starter Pack means you can spend hours setting up your fortress, instead of your DF install!" Amen
The only outside program I use is "Dwarf Therapist." This runs a real-time spreadsheet of all kinds of stats for all of your dwarves, so you can easily see who is best at what, whom you should draft for your military, who's unhappy for whatever reason, etc. It's way easier than trying to parse your dwarves from the game interface, and it's especially useful when migrants arrive. Hopefully something like this might make it into the Steam version.
When last I played the was the difference between enjoying the game and setting it down from micromanagement issues.
Anyway, DF is a pain in the ass and you'll probably get a headache and shouldn't play it. I always quit for months after having a good fortress turn into a mess, and I'm not even a very ambitious player. But the game is just so good at making stories.
I seem to set it down for years on end and then come back to it because the other colony building games never seem to catch the lightning in a bottle. I'm really looking forward to the Steam version and actually putting money in the Adams' pocket. :oops: Assuming I get notification, it will be a day 1 purchase.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

LordMortis wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:32 pm Time is still subjective and I'm getting the itch. Anyone play recently have a recommendation for tile sets and setting the game up?
It's been a while since I last played but Mike Mayday's Graphical Edition, who's now working on the official graphics set for Dwarf Fortress Premium, is a completely graphical tileset that looks vastly superior compared to most ASCII tilesets. Spacefox is another terrific graphical tileset, and is also included with PeridexisErrant's DF Starter Pack (which does indeed make for a great way for beginners to dive into the game).
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Yojimbo »

I think that we are in a weird place for DF right now. Some of the wonderful people who maintained the great graphics packages have joined the "official" graphical effort (Mike Mayday as stated above by way of example). Some seemed to have moved on and just no longer labor for the DF community (I thank them for the time spent).

I think on the DF forums there is a feeling that too much effort put into the free graphics packages will detract from the official effort. Yet, the official graphical version can seem as distant as the final GRRM novel. I can make the case that this situation is not great for the franchise. New players who normally would have gotten started playing the last few years do exactly what some of us have done:
  • Check for a good, updated LNP or other graphic set with the latest version of DF.
  • Find no clear answer, in fact they find a community who is resistant to the very idea of a good free graphics pack out of loyalty to the brand. This feels like the old, loyal community lost something because it did.
  • They may end up cooking up their own graphic version if they (like some of us) remember how to insert a graphics pack and care to troubleshoot and fuss with it.
  • If a new outsider wanders in - they will just wander off.
Cutting a product off from new customers may not the best strategy. Is DF a product? I think it must be now because it has been marketed for sale on Steam.

This situation has some of the ingredients of an epic disaster. New version (graphical) upheld as important and the future of the simulation; check. New version completely unavailable to new users; check. Possible divergent lines of development with different features and audiences; check. The overall message to users does not look great - especially to new users.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis »

Building a world right now. I'll take that under advisement. I chose the default Phoebux 16x. We'll see what it looks like when my old world finishes building. I won't be too picky. I just need need it not to look a like a giant grid of seemingly random splatters where I can't tell what one splatter is from another and am on overload from sheer quantity.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis »

Tried the spacefox. The font is way batter than pheob...

I have totally forgotten the keyboard bindings since last I played and no WASD is killing me. And no matter what every tututorial says, the keybinding display does not tell you every thing. Like how to switch Z Levels or what the function keys do.

Also the game crashed three times yesterday. That never happened to me a few years ago or a few years before that or...
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman »

LordMortis wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:11 am Tried the spacefox. The font is way batter than pheob...

I have totally forgotten the keyboard bindings since last I played and no WASD is killing me. And no matter what every tututorial says, the keybinding display does not tell you every thing. Like how to switch Z Levels or what the function keys do.

Also the game crashed three times yesterday. That never happened to me a few years ago or a few years before that or...
Z levels are mapped to "Move/view cursor up (z)" and "Move/view cursor down (z)"
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Yojimbo »

LordMortis wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:11 am Tried the spacefox. The font is way batter than pheob...

I have totally forgotten the keyboard bindings since last I played and no WASD is killing me. And no matter what every tututorial says, the keybinding display does not tell you every thing. Like how to switch Z Levels or what the function keys do.

Also the game crashed three times yesterday. That never happened to me a few years ago or a few years before that or...
So, for me, generating new worlds has avoided the crashes. Something in some worlds seems to be causing my crashes (this is the least exact sentience possible, I fear). So I kind of play casually until a year or two in so I'm not invested until I learn if I need a new world generation. DF is still best bang for the buck of any game I have ever played.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis »

Yojimbo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:50 pm
LordMortis wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:11 am Tried the spacefox. The font is way batter than pheob...

I have totally forgotten the keyboard bindings since last I played and no WASD is killing me. And no matter what every tututorial says, the keybinding display does not tell you every thing. Like how to switch Z Levels or what the function keys do.

Also the game crashed three times yesterday. That never happened to me a few years ago or a few years before that or...
So, for me, generating new worlds has avoided the crashes. Something in some worlds seems to be causing my crashes (this is the least exact sentience possible, I fear). So I kind of play casually until a year or two in so I'm not invested until I learn if I need a new world generation. DF is still best bang for the buck of any game I have ever played.
I browsed the forums last night. It was suggested that I should shrink the active window and so far that has fixed the problem. Especially when it came hitting e for embark crashes.

It's been among the best, given that I've paid $0 so far and I've come back time and again. It will still be among the best when they release on Steam and I actually pay for the game.

... I really should just paypay bay12 $10 at the very least. (I have no patreon)... You talked me in to it... And sent...
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

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LordMortis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:18 pm
... I really should just paypay bay12 $10 at the very least. (I have no patreon)... You talked me in to it... And sent...
it is literally Tarn's salary, entirely donation funded
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis »

hitbyambulance wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:43 pm
LordMortis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:18 pm
... I really should just paypay bay12 $10 at the very least. (I have no patreon)... You talked me in to it... And sent...
it is literally Tarn's salary, entirely donation funded
I was waiting for the Steam version to put money in his pocket but I figured if I'm picking it up again now, I should throw him at least something.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman »

RPS: Dwarf Fortress's new UI looks so beautiful I could cry, despite still looking like this.

Enlarge Image
This is an in-progress view of the menus from Kitfox’s upcoming Steam re-release of Dwarf Fortress, which aims to make the game accessible with a good tileset and a set of menu improvements. What you’re seeing above hasn’t had an art pass yet, according to the Steam blog post about it, but it represents an attempt to bring important information and actions together in one place when the player is inspecting a particular tile and the creatures upon it.
It'll be amazing to just be able to... click on stuff.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Madmarcus »

I have no idea if I could go back to Dwarf Fortress now but a UI/menu overhaul would be the thing that might make me try.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Max Peck »

PAX West 2022 panel:

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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Unagi »

you best fix that link, brother.

??

Should hopefully be out on Steam by December 20th.
Last edited by Unagi on Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Max Peck »

Unagi wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:46 pm you best fix that link, brother.
It's a link to the Twitch VOD for the presentation. What's the problem with it, brother?
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Unagi »

Max Peck wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:04 pm
Unagi wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:46 pm you best fix that link, brother.
It's a link to the Twitch VOD for the presentation. What's the problem with it, brother?
It looks like the hyperlink is only valid for people with a Twitch account - bro. But if I take the link in your post and go to it - it shows. So yeah - I don't know what to say... Your link is fine - but for me it was a big blank white square telling me "player.twitch.tv refused to connect"
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Max Peck »

The forum embed for the Twitch link works for me even if I view it in a private mode window without logging into Twitch, so I don't believe the issue you're describing is related to whether or not the viewer has a Twitch account. What you describe sounds a little like what I see when a post includes an embedded Twitter link, and in that case it is caused by the adblocker I use not allowing the Twitter embed to be displayed.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Unagi »

Max Peck wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:48 pm The forum embed for the Twitch link works for me even if I view it in a private mode window without logging into Twitch, so I don't believe the issue you're describing is related to whether or not the viewer has a Twitch account. What you describe sounds a little like what I see when a post includes an embedded Twitter link, and in that case it is caused by the adblocker I use not allowing the Twitter embed to be displayed.
OK, it totally works on my iPhone and totally doesn't work on my Microsoft Edge
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by LordMortis »

Unagi wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:02 pm
Max Peck wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:48 pm The forum embed for the Twitch link works for me even if I view it in a private mode window without logging into Twitch, so I don't believe the issue you're describing is related to whether or not the viewer has a Twitch account. What you describe sounds a little like what I see when a post includes an embedded Twitter link, and in that case it is caused by the adblocker I use not allowing the Twitter embed to be displayed.
OK, it totally works on my iPhone and totally doesn't work on my Microsoft Edge
Or for me in firefox but I have ad blocker on and a AV program that is sometimes too aggressive.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Max Peck »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:25 am Or for me in firefox but I have ad blocker on and a AV program that is sometimes too aggressive.
The embed works fine for me in Firefox with uBlock Origin and NoScript, as well as in Edge and Chrome with no plugins installed.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Max Peck »



"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by infinitelurker »

I am so ready to dig back in to this! It has been a long, long, time since I last played, so I will have to search out the latest help guides/wikis to play alongside with.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Unagi »

I'm just curious if they built in a Dwarf Therapist feature - but either way, this is Huge News.

End of an era. Start of a new.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Zarathud »

It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against Rimworld.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Unagi »

Which I'm totally back into now - since the Biotech DLC.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by baelthazar »

Well... this is awesome.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

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(this thread started in 2006)
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by baelthazar »

hitbyambulance wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:56 pm (this thread started in 2006)
I wonder if the new Steam release will still be labeled "Early Access."
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Max Peck »

The development roadmap at launch sounds like an Early Access title, whether or not they formally label it as such.
CURRENTLY

We're implementing a few last creature and building graphics and fixing more bugs. We already know for sure that launch will include Legends mode.

We're not totally sure whether we'll have Arena mode or Steam Workshop integration or Classic mode at launch, but we do know all are very very close and already partially working. So those three things might end up in the launch or they might end up being patched in in the weeks after.

SOONISH

For the months following launch, we have more graphics we want to add. We'd like specific graphics for more plants (evergreens, real world plants, etc), for example, and we'd also love to put in images for baby animals instead of just scaling down the adult versions. Kittens and red panda cubs and giant eaglets!

We're also not able to approach Mac and Linux by ourselves, since we've never notarized a Mac build or managed Linux libraries, and will need to get help with that to do it properly. But obviously we'd love to get that whole pipeline working so people can play on non-Windows computers.

And of course we'll do whatever necessary work there is to stabilize the release post-launch.

EVENTUALLY

It will take a lot of effort and tons of special menus and interface, but Adventure mode is the biggest thing on the horizon that's missing from launch.

Around the same time as Adventure mode, maybe a bit before or after, we'll probably also put in Steam Achievements. We'll complete the work on villain systems and armies and sieges we were pondering before premium DF work began.

After that, we'll probably enter a lengthier development cycle, designing and coordinating work around the next big improvements to the map system, preparing the game for the addition of procedurally generated myths and magic systems. Some of these additions will take months by themselves, or longer, but we'll see how all that is shaping up when we get there.
From the chatter I've seen, I expect that a lot of existing players won't consider it feature-complete (relative to the existing version) until everything up to Adventure mode is included.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman »

Zarathud wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:56 pm It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against Rimworld.
Rimworld is a beautiful and basic version of Dwarf Fortress that limits you to three or ten citizens on a flat single plane of building, farming and crafting. It's a lot of fun and includes some very interesting science-fiction tropes.

Dwarf Fortress is Moria, complete with the rest of the history of Middle-earth and also, since you totally asked for it, Balrogs.
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[Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Zarathud »

I tried but failed in the old Dwarf Fortress. Dealing with the little buggers got increasingly annoying as they’d constantly muck stuff up. Then get mad and trash the place.

Balrogs have constantly ruined my enjoyment of Middle Earth, as I mentioned in the RPG thread. Specifically, ICE Rolemaster’s MERP. I fully expect them to mess up any progress.

:)

I can get 15-20 citizens going in Rimworld, and raid other places on the map. And beat back bug and mecha attackers, if I can get built up.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman »

Zarathud wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:58 pm Balrogs have constantly ruined my enjoyment of Middle Earth
I have to hand it to you. This is the most sig-worthy post I've seen in several years.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by jztemple2 »

Dwarf Fortress come out on Steam tomorrow. Here is a detailed review from PC Gamer, quite worth the read, especially for someone like myself who had never played the ASCII version. Some highlights below focusing on the new Steam version:
Over 13 years playing Dwarf Fortress, I've seen my share of legends. I've witnessed one-armed dwarven generals strangle dragons as old as time. I've watched in horror as an artisan emerged from months trapped in the caves below my fortress halls, clinging to life just long enough to craft one last work: a puzzlebox of obsidian and bone. Now, I get to see Dwarf Fortress arrive on Steam, the colony sim's emergent storytelling more approachable than it's ever been—but only just.
Image
Leaving that delicate balancing act of fortress management aside, the Steam release's most obvious changes are visual. Until now, Dwarf Fortress has been an ASCII-based enterprise, requiring mods for any imagery more engaging than a letter "D" facing you in martial combat.

Dwarf Fortress now boasts its own lovely tile-based graphics. They're charming enough to look at, your dwarves' physical features realized in sprites. The visual overhaul joins an expanded soundtrack, which moves between the gruff warmth of dwarven work songs, plaintive acoustic plucking, and haunting atmospherics. It nails the vibe—sometimes whimsical, sometimes punishing, often doomed.

In terms of playability, the biggest changes involve the interface and controls. Limited before to keyboard input, Dwarf Fortress now has native mouse support. Clicking to designate/interact with/inspect things is a much-needed and welcome change, but the new UI struggles to accommodate every aspect of this bottomless game.
Thanks to the modernization of Dwarf Fortress's Steam release, we'll hopefully see a new generation of players swapping fortress stories. Overall, it's a success. But Dwarf Fortress doesn't enter its new era without some stumbling.

For me, something was lost in the UI translation. Once you were acclimatized, the classic version's keyboard-driven interface followed a reliable logic, keeping the visual playspace cleanly delineated from menu information.

The new interface feels scattered in comparison. More things are clickable and accessible, but without any real logic regarding where they're placed. Even after a few dozen hours with it, the level of visual noise can get overwhelming, especially in a busier fortress. All told, I found it a price well worth paying, though—I can’t imagine I'd go back.
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Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by stessier »

The ArsTechnica write up on this mentioned the fable of Boatmurdered. Here is the full chronicle, which I've found quite entertaining (I tried the ASCII version back around 2009).
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malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by malchior »

I just bought it to throw some dollars his way. I played a *LOT* of Dwarf Fortress for essentially free for years. Glad to see him build on it.
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Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: [Roguelike] Dwarf Fortress

Post by Holman »

I've only fooled around with it for about an hour, but the new look and the new interface are miles ahead of what we've had previously.

If you come to DF from, say, Rimworld or Prison Architect, it will still seem a bit old-school and clunky. But coming from prior versions of DF makes it feel like a modern game at last.

Plus, all of the existing depth is present. This isn't a rebooted sequel DF with features missing (except for Adventurer Mode, which will be restored soon). Instead, it's literally the same game with all of its unbelievable depth, just given a facelift.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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