WW - OO JL : Game Over

[Scoop20906]

My god! Its full of posts! (lame 2001 reference here)

Ok, I'm gone til sunday. No internet where I'm going. I would like to wish everyone a great 4th of July weekend.

[triggercut]

Those of you still being bamboozled by some fuzzy math on behalf of the Doomboys, let me run this past you:

There are four proven and known players in the game right now. Their motives for the goodguy team are unassailable.

3 of those four are calling out with clear voice that Grundbegriff is evil, all three having arrived at that conclusion independently.

I can't believe how scared you are. Don't you read Chabon?

Why would I be scared?

I'm hoping that MM contacts Superman tonight, and WW lasso's one of them.

I figure the LoD will take me out tonight.

I'm just making sure that your goofy, untenable strategy has the brightest light possible shined upon it for everyone to see and understand.

You're the one for whom the bell's about to toll, and your team is going to be even more hard-pressed after today.

[Semaj]

Amateurs.

you missed my grand poobah speech...

SSSSSSOOOOOOOOO

If they dont wanna vote for supes... Who do we vote for? Enquiring minds need a good chuckle.

(Even money says he says lassr or Austin)

[Grundbegriff]

Yeah, I meant to get back to it, because if Grund was running an outrageous gambit on the "Lynch Superman" goofy-ness, I think here he overreached even for him to try to get two goodguys dead on Monday night.

Or to save them, provided WW happened to be more clueful than the tactical geniuses currently riding the trustwagon.

[Grundbegriff]

"here are 17 gumballs in a sack. 3 are blue and 14 are red. You want to pull the blue ones out. If you want, I'll remove one or two red ones before you start, to increase your odds of getting a blue one."

Yes, yes. The odds of me pulling a blue one with all 14 red gumballs on my first pick are pretty long. The odds of me pulling a blue one on my first pick if I pass it and allow you to remove a couple of red gumballs first? Yeah, nonexistent, and as any statistician can show, you've now made it more likely you'll fail to get all the blue gumballs out before you run out of reds.

Dude, don't even try. I spell out the probabilities right here. The upshot is that we pay only a tiny 2% fee in exchange for ensuring that-- despite your best fumbling efforts and those of the equally nimble Sean -- we don't out any more Specials today.

You're so terrified of what I might do if I'm evil that you can't see straight.

[Grundbegriff]

Why would I be scared?

Because you're playing poorly, and you're paranoid that I might be playing well for the other team? I don't know; I know only that you're (a) obsessed, and (b) mistaken.

I'm hoping that MM contacts Superman tonight, and WW lasso's one of them. I figure the LoD will take me out tonight.

I'd like to give her as much cover as possible. Who knows what she might learn.

You're the one for whom the bell's about to toll, and your team is going to be even more hard-pressed after today.

Let the record show that you were right about at least one thing.

[Unagi]

Here we go. I'm right:

Please read my assesment of the moment a few posts up. (and respond if you want)

I understand the point you are making Grund - it doesn't address what I found totally weird about it.

Let me guess-- timing isn't your strong point, right?

Snark born from frustration?

If you read my post, you will see it wasn't about the timing... let me expand on it and be more clear.

You didn't start and asked Newcastle if 'Sand and Water' was a hint - you instead made a leap and called him out on it.

Since when does a good guy take a bit of text from a percieved special (in this case, to you, Newcastle) and rip a hint out of their post and call them out for being that special?

He was at 5 of 9 votes (timewarp event may mean it was 6 of 9) , from what I could tell (triggercut was promising to put #6 (or 7) back on later in the night).

I saw it as you trying to get Newcastle to admit that he was hinting that.

The timing while it looks bad, I understood at the time to be you still just running on with your original post and not yet seeing Newcastle's reply... (ie. not that you ignoring Newcastle and pressing for someone else to counter him). I found it odd that you would do that (call for verification), before you simply asked for clarification...

That was my knee jerk thought - but then it struck me ... it was totally odd right out of the gate for you (or anyone) to do that. You were insisting a player come clean with something so vague as a refrence to water and sand and demand they tell you if they are a special.

A special at (N-1) votes, comes out and says STOP, I AM SPECIAL.

They don't drop a hint that they want someone to expose to the full light of day when they are at (N-3).

Do you see how you took his 'hint' (from your perspective) and demanded that he self-out if he is a special.

If this was Newcastles very first game, I could possibly excuse it as being an educational tip.

If you had a firm grasp of Wonder Twins lore and knew that it was always 'some form of water & some form of earth' - then I could see you just geeking out on the pair, and not doubting for a split second that he was totally coming clean (as if Newcastle actually posted about stepping into a payphone and ripping his glasses off or something totally unmistakeably Superman...) (just a side note: it was always 'some form of water & some form of animal').

As it is, I feel like you were just trying to get a special to maybe 'admit it'. (Perhaps a little like your statement that WW outed Superman.... That was a bit of a "c'mon guys - we all see you, just come out and admit it..." ?? Is that what that was?

[Remus West]

Jesus F'ing Christ guys.
...
Now can we please lynch Grundbegriff and the idiots calling for giving them time.
...
The Half-Day means we end with their kill rather than with our last miss. Whoop dee doo. It also costs us a shot at hitting one of them. If we try to get the bad guys everytime we have 6 chances. If you choose to lynch me then we have 5 chances. Half-day gain means exactly Jack-Shit. We get more attaempts to lynch an evil player by actually trying to do so. Duh.

Calm down. It's a 2% difference

Actually the part I am annoyed about it later in that post. Of course you cut it out of your quote because it woould not serve your purpose. Lynching me costs us a chance to get one of the bad guys. We have 6 moves before game ends if we do not get any of them. 6 misses. What you are saying is essentially "let's throw one away attacking Superman who we know will not die." After doing that we only have 5 chances to hit the Legion of Doom. Your plan to lynch Superman is and has been detrimental to the side of good from the start. I have been calling you on it from the start. I just layed out the numbers for it showing beyond a doubt that it hurts our side. Yet you still cling to it.

[Grundbegriff]

If they dont wanna vote for supes... Who do we vote for? Enquiring minds need a good chuckle. (Even money says he says lassr or Austin)

Lassr worries me most because (a) he's abnormally quiet, and (b) he's keeping his cards unusually close to his vest, and (c) he tells lies. His play is creeping me right out the door.

Scoop worries me second most. His forwardness seems Jokerly in nature, and his play is decidedly restrained.

Sectoid bothers me third most, chiefly because I find him illegible.

[Remus West]

Right now the rest of the Supers should think very hard about outing themselves.

Do we presently have any reason to trust that you're Superman? Cuz you sure play sorcerously.

Hadn't read this far before. Since everyone is alive either there is a Superman not contesting me or I am Superman. Go ahead and contest me. I would absolutely love that.

I have a request for the Green Lantern.
When we lynch Grundbegriff please use your ring so he can not hit us with the bomb if he is Joker. We will not then know which Bad guy we got but we will know we got one and that we may avoid the bomb that way. In fact, Green Lantern should use the ring on every single lynch we do from here on out.

[Remus West]

Right now the rest of the Supers should think very hard about outing themselves.

Do we presently have any reason to trust that you're Superman? Cuz you sure play sorcerously.

Uhm, yeah i think Remus is definitely confirmed as a good guy...they both claim contact....unless they are both evil, which i kind of doubt......

MARTIAN MANHUNTER CLARIFICATION:

Martian Manhunter must contact One Other Player each Night. He may contact the same person on consecutive nights. If either is the Target of the Villains, both will Die that Night.
**if the actual target is Lassoed the attack is prevented
*** in the event the Target is unprotected, the Lasso will save the Protected Connected
**** in the event the Contact is a Villain, the Villain *WILL* die

Thanks, but that confrims Sean not me. Sean can only operate on what I tell him. He is certainly Martian Manhunter. I am certainly Superman but only by default since I am not contested.

[Grundbegriff]

Suspicion matrix revolution:

Legion of Doom: Lassr
Seems evil: RevHempus, Scoop, Sectoid
Seems mysterious: Austin, semaj, tru1cy
Seems good: JimDave?, Kraegor, Mr. Bubbles, stessier, Unagi
Justice League: Newcastle, triggercut, Remus, Sean, Grundbegriff

Underlines indicate the folks I suspect most. Bold indicates people who are confirmed. Italic indicates claimants who are uncontested.

[triggercut]

]Actually the part I am annoyed about it later in that post. Of course you cut it out of your quote because it woould not serve your purpose. Lynching me costs us a chance to get one of the bad guys. We have 6 moves before game ends if we do not get any of them. 6 misses. What you are saying is essentially "let's throw one away attacking Superman who we know will not die." After doing that we only have 5 chances to hit the Legion of Doom. Your plan to lynch Superman is and has been detrimental to the side of good from the start. I have been calling you on it from the start. I just layed out the numbers for it showing beyond a doubt that it hurts our side. Yet you still cling to it.

Exactamundo!

[Unagi]

I've been demoted.

 Grundbegriff 
 

[Lassr]

What really sets me against it is the fact that Grund now seems evil to me. Everything he does seem to revolve around outing specials to narrow down his hunt.

You know this is nonsense.

I opposed the mass outing that Remus proposed.
I had nothing to do with triggercut's outing as Green Arrow, and criticized it as a minor blunder.
I had nothing to do with Sean's outing as the Martian Manhunter, and criticized it as a misstep.
I have lobbied for Wonder Woman to stay hidden (against Remus's cries to the contrary).
I have emphasized the importance of keeping Batman under wraps.
The only Special whose outing I have endorsed and promoted is Superman, and that's because the relevance of his power diminishes over time-- especially in view of the fact that Sean apparently outed him.

So where's all this "outing specials" of mine that leads you to think I'm evil?

I go back to the times when you've said you're very good at picking out specials early in the game (even when looking for bad guys). I was suggesting that your play style has led to heroes being revealed. Maybe you picked up on Remus as a special and you set out to lynch him to see if he squealed. The pushing of Newcastle caused Green Arrow to come out (that one is weak I admit) but maybe you thought Newcastle was special. MM coming out was an added bouns outside your power of persuasion.

But as it was mentioned earlier, you called for a wonder twin to come out because of a vague hint that you thought Newcastle had left.

And yes you would criticize then coming out as a blunder. You wouldn't gleefully gloat about it in the thread.

Notice I have not voted for you yet though. Although my evil bells are a ringing I'm still really not sure about you.

[Grundbegriff]

Let me guess-- timing isn't your strong point, right?

Snark born from frustration? If you read my post, you will see it wasn't about the timing... let me expand on it and be more clear.

You're not tracking. My complaint about your timing has to do with the fact that you're urging me at 9:57pm to read and reply without taking into account that, given what I last responded to, I'm probably in the process of doing that. As you can see, I did address your self-defeating claim at 10:13. I was typing that long post while you were urging me to pay attention to the point to which it responds.

You didn't take into account the timing of give-and-take, just as you initially neglected in in regard to my dialogue with Newcastle before recognizing your error.

You didn't start and asked Newcastle if 'Sand and Water' was a hint - you instead made a leap and called him out on it.

As I said, the hint seemed blatant, conspicuous, and ill-timed. I couldn't think of any reason a real Wonder Twin would step forward in Newc's position. Since I already suspected him of being evil, and had already detected an apparent bit of Wondertwinnish breadcrumbing, it all seemed to come together.

As soon as he professed oblivion, I stepped back and sought clarification.

Since when does a good guy take a bit of text from a percieved special (in this case, to you, Newcastle) and rip a hint out of their post and call them out for being that special?

He wasn't a perceived special; I thought he was probably Lex, and had said so. His apparent claim to be a WT, coming as it did in mid-bandwagon, certainly didn't seem like the kind of thing a real Special would do, and did seem consistent with what I already suspected-- namely, that he was evil and dodging.

I saw it as you trying to get Newcastle to admit that he was hinting that.

How many times do we have to go over this? The sequence was:
(a) Weird, breadcrumby jumpsuits breadcrumb (apparently accidental)
(b) Conspicuous, blatant WT hint (apparently coincidental, amazing though that be)
(c) My calling for a WT to rebut the claim behind the hint
(d) Newc's denial that it was a hint
(e) My request that he clarify

Big whoop.

The timing while it looks bad, I understood at the time to be you still just running on with your original post

If you had understood this at the time, you wouldn't have accused me, later, of holding onto the claim after he denied it (as you did in the post to which I replied "I don't think that's true").

That was my knee jerk thought - but then it struck me ... it was totally odd right out of the gate for you (or anyone) to do that. You were insisting a player come clean with something so vague as a refrence to water and sand and demand they tell you if they are a special.

Do you know the cartoons in question? It was no more vague than someone asking for black glasses and a phone booth.

If you had a firm grasp of Wonder Twins lore and knew that it was always 'some form of water & some form of earth' - then I could see you just geeking out on the pair, and not doubting for a split second that he was totally coming clean (as if Newcastle actually posted about stepping into a payphone and ripping his glasses off or something totally unmistakeably Superman...)

I just want to say that I'm replying interactively, and that I typed the glasses/phonebooth thing before reading this. How's that for an embedded archetype?!

(just a side note: it was always 'some form of water & some form of animal')

I never liked the Justice League, and always liked physics. I thought it was liquid/solid/never-gas.

As it is, I feel like you were just trying to get a special to maybe 'admit it'. (Perhaps a little like your statement that WW outed Superman.... That was a bit of a "c'mon guys - we all see you, just come out and admit it..." ?? Is that what that was?

I thought Sean had outed Austin as Superman, and was trying to get him to shut up. Fortunately, we've learned that Sean knows how to control himself and keep a secret... uhm....

[Lassr]

Oh, and I don't think I have been all that quiet. I think I've had around 40+ posts.
Plus, I can't post as much at work anymore either. They are watching.

That's it for me tonight. Might be around in the morning.

I'll keep my vote on scoop for now (I know it seems like a safe vote but I'm really not sure where I'd want to move it right now).

[Unagi]

This role was made for my play style.

I think it was made for Chaos' play style actually. As someone noted earlier - this was a get out of lynch free card. This was Kraegor's card to get - this was Remus' card to get... Not yours.

You act like losing one of ours is a good thing because we might get one of theirs.

Um, no - I admit that normals are expendable, that we (everyone) will let a special save himself before we lynch them - and that the only way to win is to take the risk that you may hit a Normal. Think about every day you've played in every WW-game. You really think it would be BEST to just skip a day? The way you and Grund describe it --> Chaos put this role in the game to be used Day 1 as a "Heroes would like to obstain from the day, lets move back into night again." manuever.

really?

It's so infuriating!!!

I bet, I am sure you were thinking you and Grund would go all the way. Was it a natural pair up or did one of you court the other?

[Lassr]

I thought Sean had outed Austin as Superman, and was trying to get him to shut up. Fortunately, we've learned that Sean knows how to control himself and keep a secret... uhm....

I knew I forgot something.

I do agree with Grund here. I thought Sean was saying Austin was Superman also. And it appeared Austin was playing along with it.

[Grundbegriff]

Green Lantern should use the ring on every single lynch we do from here on out.

Note to Chaosraven: that's another way this ruleset is broken. Joker works only when GL is dead, since GL has no reason to use his ring at night anyhow.

[Grundbegriff]

Your plan to lynch Superman is and has been detrimental

Exactamundo!

Y'all are gonna look so silly whenever I die.

[Newcastle]

maybe, maybe not. But we have to keep the streak of you exciting the games early going...know what what i mean? yeah, yeah, yeah

/does a air guitar riff and jams out

[Grundbegriff]

I go back to the times when you've said you're very good at picking out specials early in the game (even when looking for bad guys). I was suggesting that your play style has led to heroes being revealed. Maybe you picked up on Remus as a special and you set out to lynch him to see if he squealed.

Going back to that pattern isn't a bad idea, and your point has at least this merit: I did have Remus high on the Evil side of my threat matrix because I was sensing something. If he turns out to be Superman, as seems to be the case, then that is what I was sensing, I guess. But it read to me as evil. I'm good at sniffing out specials, good or bad; I'm good, but less good, at sorting them....

The pushing of Newcastle caused Green Arrow to come out (that one is weak I admit)

That one is silly. Nothing caused Green Arrow to come out, other than his own impetuousness. Remember? He had misunderstood the rules, and ended up having repeatedly to dunce cap himself after having chided the people who had gotten the rules right.

I had nothing to do with it, and didn't think it was wise.

but maybe you thought Newcastle was special.

I thought he was hinting at being a WT from very early on, and said so in my "Fifth Point" post. I also thought he was lying from early on, for the reasons stessier noted.

And yes you would criticize then coming out as a blunder. You wouldn't gleefully gloat about it in the thread.

I've consistently opposed all outing except for Superman's self-outing. Any evil you read into that is not my fault.

Notice I have not voted for you yet though. Although my evil bells are a ringing I'm still really not sure about you.

See? This is why your gameplay creeps me out the door this time. All the cool, trusted kids are voting against me. Why do you hesitate?

[Grundbegriff]

The way you and Grund describe it --> Chaos put this role in the game to be used Day 1 as a "Heroes would like to obstain from the day, lets move back into night again." manuever. really?

Incidentally, what is your theory about the function of Superman under these rules? Just something else that's broken?

[Unagi]

The way you and Grund describe it --> Chaos put this role in the game to be used Day 1 as a "Heroes would like to obstain from the day, lets move back into night again." manuever. really?

Incidentally, what is your theory about the function of Superman under these rules? Just something else that's broken?

I think it was made for Chaos' play style actually. As someone noted earlier - this was a get out of lynch free card. This was Kraegor's card to get - this was Remus' card to get...

I thought it would have been interesting for Superman to sorta be the guy that the villains would have thought they could get lynched... And then -> "Haaazah! -- You can't Kill ME!, I'm Superman!!!!!"

I dunno

[Grundbegriff]

I thought it would have been interesting for Superman to sorta be the guy that the villains would have thought they could get lynched... And then -> "Haaazah! -- You can't Kill ME!, I'm Superman!!!!!"

I dunno

I don't know either, if it's not for teamkill/team-outage avoidance.

Maybe it's just for style points.

As for trying to get X lynch and then learning (Curses! Foiled again!) that X is Superman.... Well, in my experience, baddies don't go out of their way to get particular people lynched unless a night scan has given them reason to do so. Usually, evildoers wait to see what goodguys want to do, and then join the momentum when it's clear that the target is both good and bandwagonable, and try to leave as few fingerprints as possible.

They do this unless a scan dictates otherwise, and yet a scan of Superman by night would never lead evildoers to try to get him lynched.

For this reason, the scenario you describe, though possible, seems pretty unlikely to occur.

[Remus West]

Grund, you had me listed as most likely JLA before I turned my attention to you. Only then did you try to turn that into my being evil.

As for Superman's ability, I have had a while to think about it and the only thing I can see it being worth in this rule set is I can prove it if tested. Thus while it costs us a lynch I can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Other than that it is really worthless. If there were a protector other than Wonderwoman in this game then the first thing I would have done was announce myself so that the protector could play maybe I am/maybe I am not protecting him this night but with the protection being tied into the scan I think it worthless to do so. I would rather Wonderwoman work on building her block than worry about saving me. If I die at night while she lives and gains a scan I consider that a victory for us. Same goes for triggercut and Newcastle. Every night they waste killing us is a night they allow Wonderwoman to narrow the field towards finding them.

[Remus West]

I know I have already said this TWICE, but I want it clear. Lynching Superman means we will have 5 misses before the end game. Lynching anyone else means we will have 6 misses before the end game.

Thus,
If you believe I am Superman then voting to lynch me is assinine.

If you do not believe I am Superman than you should do two things. First feel free to vote me (but be prepared to be called an idiot for it). Second call for "the real" Superman to contradict me.

[triggercut]

Please don't vote to lynch Remus. There's no need to test him.

[Sectoid]

I'm still here, being illegible. Just reading and digesting.
Damn, Grundverbose is long.
Anyway, Sean and/or Remus could still be lying. Hell, I never trust a word Remus types. I just can't bring myself to do it. That being said, lynching Remus is an option to prove his Super-tude, yes. However, I don't think he's telling a lie, entirely. In the beginning of the game, Remus put forth his full exposure theory of winning, from a perceived flaw in the game design. That indicates a JL or normie role to me. A real LOD-er would have exploited the flaw and/or kept shut. Grund on the otherhand, seems to want to test his lynch Remus theory. Something I can normally get behind. This time doesn't seem right, though. Something about Grund seems off. When Remus announced his plan to exploit the faulty rules, in the JL's favor, Grund wanted a re-roll. Maybe because he felt like he was about to get shafted due to his assigned LOD role? I dunno, just a thought.

[RevHempus71]

intuitive observations:

1) Grund worries me. Why? Last time he and Remus had a catfight it was pure b.s. as they were both evil.
2) Unagi has apparently given up all pretense of being analytical this game. Why is he hiding?
3) Bubbles. runs even keel. hard to read
4) Scoop. shifted philosophy. either receiving coaching or attempting a zen approach to understanding the game.
5) stessier. haphazard. zipping around like a squirrel on crack.
6) Remus. shifted philosophy. aggressive stance day 1. accuses me of the same. ironic.
7) triggercut. shot up some heroin. he's twitchy and wants some action.
8) revhempus. apparently can't find his stash...
9) jim dave - what?
10) Austin. - nudger
11) Lassr. - nudger
12) Sean - aggressive stance but not leading. nudge nudge nudge
13) Semaj - wildcard. attempting aggressive stance. standard gameplay, unknown motive.
14) Sectoid. unknown

And the list of reasons my vote remains on Kraegor continues to grow.

Ok, everybody. It is now 2:33 am. I just got home from the hospital with my dad. he is very very sick. I was there since 2 pm. I was trying to get caught up but I am too tired at this point. I will have some time to share my thoughts after some sleep.

[Semaj]

If they dont wanna vote for supes... Who do we vote for? Enquiring minds need a good chuckle. (Even money says he says lassr or Austin)

Lassr worries me most because (a) he's abnormally quiet, and (b) he's keeping his cards unusually close to his vest, and (c) he tells lies. His play is creeping me right out the door.

Scoop worries me second most. His forwardness seems Jokerly in nature, and his play is decidedly restrained.

Sectoid bothers me third most, chiefly because I find him illegible.

Ok My ass is hammered, it's 6am, well 6:42am and I have to get up in a few hours for work... God bless alcohol and after hours drinking... So forgive me if my thoughts jump around a bit, I blame 7 shot drinks in mass amounts. ANYWAYS... I will not scour through all these posts looking for examples, but at some point you have to accept responsibility for your actions.

You demanded a lynch on Newcastle and then demanded other wonder twins out themselves to prove this charlatan false. You said enough and then pressed Remus West enough MM had doubts enough to out him. Whether this is your usual stuff or not, it doesn't help your cause at all. You have more or less started enough outings to make a gay pride parade (No offense to anyone who likes men, women included ) look tame.

Don't act like an innocent in this case, you may have been trying to find out truths, but all the truths you have found out help the evils as much, if not more so, than the ones you wanted. Yes, we all agree triggercut and MM came out way too soon, but only because in one case they were sure they had a Wolf (Triggerfinger) or the chance to make a proven and in one case they were sure they had supes and a lynch didn't hurt us and proved his worth.

You my friend are in the middle of the CHAOS that surrounds us and claiming anything less than that is an insult to all our intelligences.

Yes, I jumped on the Newcastle bandwagon, but I think, nay I hope because he questioned me afterwards, that I have explained my reasonings fairly well. The question is, why do you claim innocence when guilt lies in your path. As such, I begin to see more and more of a pattern of self defense and no offense, which is your trademark.

 Grundbegriff 
 
your circling words of whatever worry me. More than Mr. Bubbles jump off the bandwagon (Which leads me to believe he is more evil than you.)

I called you a possible joker a while back and you ignored this, not only that but you have ignored every other comment on that front. In fact you've noticeably fallen silent on those attacks. It's not too late to save yourself. You are not that close to destruction that death ensues. Show me a reason, and a good one, that you should not be thrown before the JLA and destroyed for one and all. Or else, you should be damned.

I really need to get drunk more often, I sound all important and shit

[Austin]

Happy 4th.

I've only skimmed as you guys did a lot of posting yesterday. I think it's probably not an entirely bad idea to lynch supes as it guarantees us not outting a special and not killing an innocent. That said it also means we don't hit Lex and the bad guys getting a scan and a kill each night, we need to remove Lex asap. I think it's a given that the GL zap our target today, just in case it's #53 as Grund put it.

 Grundbegriff 
 
as he has rubbed me wrong from the start.

Oh yeah, and I missed the Sean saying Austin = Superman thing. What I picked up was Sean = WW and scanned Austin innocent.

[Grundbegriff]

In the beginning of the game, Remus put forth his full exposure theory of winning, from a perceived flaw in the game design. That indicates a JL or normie role to me. A real LOD-er would have exploited the flaw and/or kept shut.

That's exactly why I initially put him in the JL pile, and that's pretty much how I explained it. I moved him to the evil side only when he started acting, well, evil.

Grund on the otherhand, seems to want to test his lynch Remus theory. Something I can normally get behind. This time doesn't seem right, though. Something about Grund seems off.

I'm not deeply invested in the "test Remus" concept. As I've repeatedly said, it's only a 2% diff in the odds of finding someone tomorrow-- nearly invisible as differences go. I've also called upon triggercut and others to take their blinkers off and do a bit of post-ThisIssue analysis.

There've been no takers. Apparently, the village has a deathwish.

Not using Superman would be only marginally worse than using him, so I'm OK with the decision to move on, if we make it. However, using him would be better; it would save us from outing our core specials, and give us a bit more time to increase precision.

Yes, Remus-- we'll have fewer "misses"; but misses are a two-edged sword, and each miss of them is a hit on us. What would we earn for accepting only five shots instead of six? Secrecy, safety, and a greater opportunity to figure out who's worth targeting. We need to kill three in those five or six shots, and that's not going to be easy if every single Special (esp. Batman and Wonderwoman) ends up compromised on Monday.

When Remus announced his plan to exploit the faulty rules, in the JL's favor, Grund wanted a re-roll. Maybe because he felt like he was about to get shafted due to his assigned LOD role? I dunno, just a thought.

I didn't want a re-roll due to my role; I was granted my favorite role. That's a word to the wise.
I wanted a re-roll after a re-design because the game's ruleset is still a rough draft, and it would've offered even more fun if it had been polished enough to make complete sense.

[Grundbegriff]

Don't act like an innocent in this case, you may have been trying to find out truths, but all the truths you have found out help the evils as much, if not more so, than the ones you wanted.

triggerfinger's choice to waste his power on Monday helped the Legion; I didn't.
Sean's choice to expose himself and put a target on his head and out Superman helped the Legion; I didn't.

I'm not at the center of those activities; I deplore them as borderline incompetent.

You my friend are in the middle of the CHAOS that surrounds us and claiming anything less than that is an insult to all our intelligences.

That would be redundant. Intelligence that ascribes causality to me for the free folly of others is already auto-insulting.

Yes, I jumped on the Newcastle bandwagon, but

Heh. Don't pretend there's method to your madness; you're clearly winging it.

As such, I begin to see more and more of a pattern of self defense and no offense....
...
I called you a possible joker a while back and you ignored this, not only that but you have ignored every other comment on that front.

Contradict yourself much? I'm only self-defensive, and yet I don't defend myself? I'm avoiding offense, and yet I'm at the center of all the mayhem?

Show me a reason, and a good one, that you should not be thrown before the JLA and destroyed for one and all. Or else, you should be damned.

I shouldn't be destroyed because I'm (a) a member of the Justice League, and (b) an asset to the team. That's the complete case.

I really need to get drunk more often, I sound all important and shit

[Grundbegriff]

I think it's probably not an entirely bad idea to lynch supes as it guarantees us not outting a special and not killing an innocent. That said it also means we don't hit Lex and the bad guys getting a scan and a kill each night, we need to remove Lex asap.

Thanks. That seems like a balanced assessment.

I think it's a given that the GL zap our target today, just in case it's #53 as Grund put it.

Undoubtedly, Green Lantern should negate every day's lynchee. The game's broken in that respect, but it is what it is; why not take advantage?

 Grundbegriff 
 
as he has rubbed me wrong from the start.

That's the wrong play.

[Lassr]

Before I leave for the day I'm going to cast my vote:
 Grundbegriff 
 


I thought you were evil in the Get Smart game and I voted for you. I was right, but Remus went another direction.
I've got the same feeling this time and I'm not going to hesitate anymore.

[triggercut]

My count is 8 votes against Grundbegriff:

Newcastle, Remus, Sectoid, triggercut, Unagi, Semaj, Austin, Lassr.

He's on the bubble folks.

Grund, anything you need to tell us? Or can you be sent over the falls?

[Grundbegriff]

Grund, anything you need to tell us? Or can you be sent over the falls?

I'm an Aquaman.

[Grundbegriff]

Hey, if we lynch Grund and he pops up goodguy, you and Bubs rocket to the top of the suspects list.

Analysis at work.

Analysis? You're hilarious.

Against Remus West(1): Grundbegriff
Against Grundbegriff(8): Newcastle, Remus West, Sectoid, triggercut, Unagi, Semaj, Austin, Lassr
Against Newcastle(1): Kraegor
Against Scoop20906(1): stessier
Against stessier(1): Scoop20906
Against tru1cy(1): tru1cy

No Votes Registered: JimDave, Mr Bubbles, RevHempus71, Sean