WW - OO JL : Game Over

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:41 pm

Unagi wrote:Earlier you said that 0 is better than -1 .... You keep skipping +1.

Do I? That's odd; I thought I had discussed it at length.

If we truly stumbled on Superman, the difference would be that we actually all (minus any evil-doers) did it thinking that player was Evil

That's psychobabble. Nobody here has a reason to think I'm evil.

Presumably, if they didn't kill Superman overnight - we could, lynch him 'again' the next day, and again, and again. What are the circumstances under which you feel the good guys should stop lynching Superman and start taking risks?

Taking one day to ensure quality of intel seems reasonable. That's the threshold.

Yes, there would be some data generated from the votes - that would be the one major difference, and sometimes that data isn't entirely aesthetic.

From wasting your lynch on me, you have learned exactly nothing.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:43 pm

BTW: I'm posting as a community service, providing filler until Chaosworking comes along to move things forward.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:54 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Wanye Gretzky wrote:You miss 100% of the shots you do not take
You're no Wayne Gretzky.

I can't even skate.

I do love hockey though so I got that going for me.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:56 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:BTW: I'm posting as a community service, providing filler until Chaosworking comes along to move things forward.

He will not likely be on until very very late tonight, if at all. He is (assumedly) already at a party his parents are throwing at the lake (fireworks show tonight). One I am probably now late for if I do not get off my rear and get going.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:31 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
If we truly stumbled on Superman, the difference would be that we actually all (minus any evil-doers) did it thinking that player was Evil
That's psychobabble. Nobody here has a reason to think I'm evil.

I think it's safe to say that at least 9 people did find reasons to think you were evil.

Grundbegriff wrote:
Presumably, if they didn't kill Superman overnight - we could, lynch him 'again' the next day, and again, and again. What are the circumstances under which you feel the good guys should stop lynching Superman and start taking risks?
Taking one day to ensure quality of intel seems reasonable. That's the threshold.

Um... What intel would we be ensuring the quality of?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:53 pm

MEANWHILE, BACK AT JUSTICE LEAGUE HEADQUARTERS...

The members of the Justice League gathered around and talked Ralph Dibney into making his tongue into a Noose.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:56 pm

After a vicious Tongue Lashing, er Hanging...

Batman: he's dead, Jim.
Kirk: I'm not in this scene, but what was he?

Robin: I don't get to play either. Great Generics Ghost! The Batputer says he was Normal.
Ralph Dibney: thomeone help me get thith tathte of fish off my tongue

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:40 pm

Well.

RevHempus71 · Post by **RevHempus71** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:20 pm

Foot meet mouth, uh I think I need some ketchup.........

First off, thank you Newcastle for the encouragement, and all of you for prayers and thoughts. It isn't easy dealing with the unknown. We have gotten my Dad to agree to return to the hospital and let them do what they do. So I will be taking him 8 am Monday morning, he insists on going to church before the hospital. I figured we could give him that much. I will be reading as often as I can, hopefully posting as well. I should be able to get at least 20 min here and there on a computer.

So since I have a few hours now I am going to go over my notes and thoughts. I will post again before I have to go to bed.

Sorry about that last vote Grund. You really did have me going " Oh SHIT I am being Grundermined again". I am sure I was having flashbacks of the worst cruise in my career. (however that new strain I developed could be to bl.............ammm.......eee)

Anyhow time to think.........

RevHempus71 · Post by **RevHempus71** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:32 pm

Version 1

1. Mr Bubbles: first game with him, but his voting and posting seems evilish to me
2. Remus West: Superman? (uncontested) so for now I will trst him
3. Kraegor: I too think you are playing abnormally, suspect
4. Newcastle: Aquaman (confermed)
5. Lassr: Still think he is being very careful, according to some this is his "tell"
6. Grundbegriff: I feel like I am on a boat somewhere....hmm. suspect
7. JimDave: too absent to be bad??? probably
8. triggercut: Green Arrow
9. Austin: not to sure but leaning good
10. sectoid: a bit odd to me, not sure but somewhat suspect
11. stessier: You sir are bugging the hell out of me, can't put a finger on it exactly but highly suspect
12. tru1cy: being tru1cy, leaning good
13. Sean, Minister of KtSP: Martian Manhunter? (uncontested)
14. Unagi: leaning good
15. Scoop20906: some weird stuff coming (however significantly less than usual) from him, suspect
16. RevHempus71: thats me
17. semaj: I liked your style as a badguy, Ilike your style again but from a leaning good way.

There you have it.

Trusteds:
RevHempus
Newcastle
Trigg
Remus
Sean

Leaning good:
Jim Dave
Austin
Tru1cy
Unagi
Semaj

Suspect 50/50:
MrBubbles
Lassr
Sectoid

Highly suspect:
Grund
Stess
Scoop
Kreagor

Version 2

1. Mr Bubbles: first game with him, but his voting and posting seems evilish to me. No change
2. Remus West: Superman? (uncontested) so for now I will trst him
3. Kraegor: I too think you are playing abnormally, suspect. Fluctuating at the moment
4. Newcastle: Aquaman (confermed)
5. Lassr: Still think he is being very careful, according to some this is his "tell". no changes
6. Grundbegriff: Dead Aquaman.
7. JimDave: too absent to be bad??? probably. no changes
8. triggercut: Green Arrow
9. Austin: not to sure but leaning good
10. sectoid: a bit odd to me, not sure but somewhat suspect. no changes
11. stessier: Hmm..... I have gut feeling I don't wish to discuss at night tho.
12. tru1cy: being tru1cy, leaning good. Would you care to add to anything now?
13. Sean, Minister of KtSP: Martian Manhunter? (uncontested)
14. Unagi: leaning good
15. Scoop20906: some weird stuff coming (however significantly less than usual) from him, suspect. Graduating to highly suspect now. Mainly because you never pass up a chance to be the lynch vote. Why now???????
16. RevHempus71: thats me. still me

17. semaj: I still like your style. still leaning good

Dead: (1)
Grundbegriff: Aquaman #2

Known: (4) 5 counting myself
RevHempus71: that's me again.....
Triggercut: Green Arrow
Newcastle: Aquaman #1
Remus West: Superman (uncontested)
Sean, MofKSP: Martian Manhunter (uncontested)
While speaking of Remus and Sean, My "trust" is based not only on being uncontested. Also because I would have done the same thing in contacting Remus first. Oh an CR, nothing meant by that to you personally just you are not IN this game. RL friendships need to be tested in this grand game we play, in my opinion, as soon as possible.

Unknown: (11, 8JLA - 3LoD) These numbers reflect including myself in the above list.
Mr Bubbles
Kraegor
Lassr
JimDave
Austin
sectoid
stessier
tru1cy
Unagi
Scoop20906
Semaj

Hiding in the unknown:
Lex Luther
The Joker
Harley Quinn
Wonder Woman
Batman
Green Lantern
Wonder Twin #1
Wonder Twin #2
Aquaman #3
Aquaman #4
Aquaman #5

So from my point of view I have a 3/11 chance of picking LoD, 8/11 chance of a JLA. Bad odds. So with the new information (grunds innocence) I will give you my updated lists.

Most likely good:
JimDave
tru1cy
Unagi

Leaning good:
Austin
Semaj

Suspect 50/50
Sectoid
Lassr
MrBubbles

Suspect:
Kreagor
Stessier
Scoop20906

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:23 pm

Chaosraven wrote: The Batputer says he was Normal.

Wow, a lot happening here over the holiday.
that was a lot to read!

So the illogical Grund was actually normal...

Oh and RevHempus, hope your dad does well, my thoughts are with you and your family.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:30 am

Monday Night -

Boilerplate:
Wonder Woman - will you Compel?
Martian Manhunter - who do you Contact?
Green Lantern - will you use your Ring?
Wonder Twins - will you Transform?
Lex Luthor - who will you Scan?
Villains - who will you attack?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:35 am

Hope everyone had a NICE 4th. I see a missed another chance to make the killing vote.

Makes me cry.

I guess I will shut up now until night has ended.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:19 am

Grundbegriff wrote:Now that you're sober, get your vote off me and let's find Lex, Joker, or Harley.

FTR I almost re-voted for him myself for that comment. It reeked of more wolf than Mr Bubbles does. Except by that point I decided Gund was actually good and just not giving the whole reasoning for his methodology. I got the feeling because he was making a lot of the same arguments I would have. For instance, while a lot of you hate the superman idea, it was the right argument to make (Using him is better than not using him, even if you dont save a day, you save the people who haven't revealed themselves so the WW's have to scan more and kill Supes. Our unknown pool doesn't get smaller, but their unknown pool doesn't either.

Lets see what the night brings... I'm going to work in a few hours for like only 8 or 9 hours tonight, yay.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:27 pm

Semaj wrote:Except by that point I decided Gund was actually good and just not giving the whole reasoning for his methodology.

Yeah, I think you also spoke of how you wouldn't have been killing Newcastle either. You're pretty clean Semaj, and you've made it clear to everyone each time that you were. We got it. Check.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:51 pm

Unagi wrote:
Semaj wrote:Except by that point I decided Gund was actually good and just not giving the whole reasoning for his methodology.
Yeah, I think you also spoke of how you wouldn't have been killing Newcastle either. You're pretty clean Semaj, and you've made it clear to everyone each time that you were. We got it. Check.

At least we agree on this much.

Sectoid · Post by **Sectoid** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:42 pm

Well, I just caught up on reading. Geesh... Anyway, last time I follow Remus' vote. Should have kept my vote on Austin, I always screw that up. At least I should have less to read when I log on here since Grund has been 86ed. I think the LoD have a few targets to choose from now thanks to everyone not being able to keep in under their hats, glasses, in their pants...whatever. Some of you seem oddly happy about how today's events unfolded. Others are keeping quiet and trying not to make waves. I still have my eye on Austin, but Lassr is also too quiet for my liking. I should probably keep my mouth shut. Last time I said someone was too quiet, Grund wrote War and Peace in the this place.
Best wishes to Rev and his family.
Well, until tomorrow, this is Apache Chief saying "Inyuk-chuk".

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:46 pm

I'm quiet? Then what do you call Scoop or Mr. Bubbles? Geez, I smell a lynch train coming tomorrow.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:48 pm

Shhhh... Night time...

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:14 pm

Lassr wrote:I'm quiet? Then what do you call Scoop or Mr. Bubbles? Geez, I smell a lynch train coming tomorrow.

choo-choo chuga-chuga chugga-chugga CHOO-CHOO

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:38 pm

Austin wrote:Shhhh... Night time...

Chaosraven wrote:Any player may post in the thread whatever they wish during the Night.

All I can think is that Grund was holding something back, because his espoused play was a non-starter. He must've had a reason.

At any rate, we at least have an analyzable vote to work with.

Since I may be out of the game soon, my suspicious list is:

1. Anyone who voted for Grundbegriff who isn't Sean, Newcastle, Remus, or me.
2. Mr. Bubbles and Scoop and Semaj as well.

Wonder Woman should probably compel MM tonight. MM should probably talk to either me or Remus, but not Newcastle.
All surviving specials should out themselves tomorrow so that MM, ineligible for protection, can avoid contacting them and giving the Legion a 2 for 1 on hero deaths.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:51 pm

Austin wrote:Shhhh... Night time...

speaking of quiet players...

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:51 am

triggercut wrote:
Austin wrote:Shhhh... Night time...

Chaosraven wrote:Any player may post in the thread whatever they wish during the Night.
All I can think is that Grund was holding something back, because his espoused play was a non-starter. He must've had a reason.

At any rate, we at least have an analyzable vote to work with.

Since I may be out of the game soon, my suspicious list is:

1. Anyone who voted for Grundbegriff who isn't Sean, Newcastle, Remus, or me.
2. Mr. Bubbles and Scoop and Semaj as well.

Wonder Woman should probably compel MM tonight. MM should probably talk to either me or Remus, but not Newcastle.
All surviving specials should out themselves tomorrow so that MM, ineligible for protection, can avoid contacting them and giving the Legion a 2 for 1 on hero deaths.

if you tell WW who to compel, they have a good chance (the evildoers of well, not picking that person.) As such we lose a solid chance to gain a day/block who they try to kill.

MM pick a wolf of some kind, or one you believe to be a wolf. WW do whatever the hell you want

And:
You suspect me? BAH... well I cant blame ya, lol. I mean since I'm not a trusted, I can't prove my usefulness until the day the evildoes drop me. However, lets think about the brainpower behind todays lynching and perhaps rethink who we decide runs the lynch trains. I don't disagree with the lynch, but I do think your refusal to acknowledge anyone else as a possible lynch hurts us in the long run. We mine as well blindly pick someone, lynch em and hope.

Maybe if we had jumped on Mr Bubbles or Scoop or Austin, we might have bagged a wolf. I know you cant ever trust grundle since he's a monster evil player. But you don't always roll evil, so either you have to start reading the person or get stuck in a mode of assuming the worst. I'm just lucky we didn't have 2 or 3 more days played in 300 or I'd probably have been a real strong day 1 lynch possibility. yet, the fact remains I am playing for the good guys and eventually it will come out. Whether by you killing me hoping I'm bad or by WW announcing she checked me and I'm good. As such I play to win, not to get lucky. So i got this tremendous bit of advice for ya...

Relax, read, breath, meditate, calm down, analyze. Going willy nilly into oblivion may be fun, but it kills our chances at winning.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:17 am

A Selection of Works from Semaj (slightly edited to fit the &%(*@&# Quote policy):

Semaj wrote:I dunno if its a solid play to vote for him. I think the wolves know jumping on a bandwagon isnt in thier best interest when so many people are doing such a great job of making themselves targets. What if the one unknown is already a wolf? How many more you think would hop on the pile before its obvious. Also, I agree with him and Kraegor, its not a bad play, at all, for us to vote for supes. It's just a much better play if someone hadn't outted him... You know who I am talking about... Yes you...

I reserve the right to remove my vote at any time, like if Grund makes a little more sense than he has recently. it's almost like he's coming loose at the seams and that doesn't sound very grund like. Might be a bit over tired from the trip, might just have screwed up and is trying to save his own arse. Could also be he is the joker and is trying to get bamfed.....

withdraw Steisser

Grundbegriff

I choose you!

After Newcastle votes for Grund.

Semaj wrote:That puts our vote count on him at 6 right?

After Mr. Bubbles pulls his vote for Grund:

Semaj wrote:
triggercut wrote: 6. In order to succeed here, then, we need votes on unknown players to go to critical or even lynch levels. Those are the events that give the goodguys info to crunch and numbers to play with.

7. The downside to the strategy is *usually* that it could end up forcing a special to uncloak. In this game and at this point, I'm not sure it hurts us as much as in other games. The other downside is obviously the lynching of an unpowered goodguy. Even that latter event gives the rest of the goodguys valuable information to work with, especially when those votes are thrown into relief when the first badguy is caught.

I think I have been doing this...

And I got another one for ya...

Withdraw Grundbegrif

Mr Bubbles

HIs whole holding off on his voting thing... seemed SO... well... bleh to me. "Eye am hear two save teh good peepz!"

Felt totally wolfish to me. So he could claim he got off a big vote on someone who wasn't a wolf (Well, if grund isnt one, no proof of that noise just yet)

Crap Maybe I am turning into Kraegor... I hope not, I liked being me, cry.

Semaj wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
Semaj wrote:If they dont wanna vote for supes... Who do we vote for? Enquiring minds need a good chuckle. (Even money says he says lassr or Austin)
Lassr worries me most because (a) he's abnormally quiet, and (b) he's keeping his cards unusually close to his vest, and (c) he tells lies. His play is creeping me right out the door.

Scoop worries me second most. His forwardness seems Jokerly in nature, and his play is decidedly restrained.

Sectoid bothers me third most, chiefly because I find him illegible.
Ok My ass is hammered, it's 6am, well 6:42am and I have to get up in a few hours for work... God bless alcohol and after hours drinking... So forgive me if my thoughts jump around a bit, I blame 7 shot drinks in mass amounts. ANYWAYS... I will not scour through all these posts looking for examples, but at some point you have to accept responsibility for your actions.

You demanded a lynch on Newcastle and then demanded other wonder twins out themselves to prove this charlatan false. You said enough and then pressed Remus West enough MM had doubts enough to out him. Whether this is your usual stuff or not, it doesn't help your cause at all. You have more or less started enough outings to make a gay pride parade (No offense to anyone who likes men, women included ) look tame.

Don't act like an innocent in this case, you may have been trying to find out truths, but all the truths you have found out help the evils as much, if not more so, than the ones you wanted. Yes, we all agree triggercut and MM came out way too soon, but only because in one case they were sure they had a Wolf (Triggerfinger) or the chance to make a proven and in one case they were sure they had supes and a lynch didn't hurt us and proved his worth.

You my friend are in the middle of the CHAOS that surrounds us and claiming anything less than that is an insult to all our intelligences.

Yes, I jumped on the Newcastle bandwagon, but I think, nay I hope because he questioned me afterwards, that I have explained my reasonings fairly well. The question is, why do you claim innocence when guilt lies in your path. As such, I begin to see more and more of a pattern of self defense and no offense, which is your trademark.

Grundbegriff

your circling words of whatever worry me. More than Mr. Bubbles jump off the bandwagon (Which leads me to believe he is more evil than you.)

I called you a possible joker a while back and you ignored this, not only that but you have ignored every other comment on that front. In fact you've noticeably fallen silent on those attacks. It's not too late to save yourself. You are not that close to destruction that death ensues. Show me a reason, and a good one, that you should not be thrown before the JLA and destroyed for one and all. Or else, you should be damned.

I really need to get drunk more often, I sound all important and shit

After a post stating he was drunk when he made the above post:

Semaj wrote: Withdraw Grundbegriff

Alrighty, lets keep him outta deaths reach for a bit longer, I kinda am enjoying all the posting and arguing.

In explanation of the pulled vote:

Semaj wrote:I'll be working from 2-1am EST and then hitting a bar for about an hour (or 5, twitch) for food. Hence the reason for my withdrawal atm. There are 4 of you who dont have votes out and several who can move, you dont need me to drop him like a bad habbit. But he does deserve his chance to argue a little more...

Semaj wrote:
Stessier wrote:
Semaj wrote: If they dont wanna vote for supes... Who do we vote for? Enquiring minds need a good chuckle.

(Even money says he says lassr or Austin)
This is a fair question and the only way we can move forward.

I am still bugged by Scoop, but Mr. Bubbles shot way up the list with his little vote/no vote move. The list gets more crowded after that. Those are my two strongest feelings, though, and I'd vote for either.

Right now my big questionsmarks are:
Mr bubbles
Austin
Rev

Moderate Questionmarks:
Grund
You (I know, I know, but you are)
Lassr
Sectoid

Someday I'ma have to look at everyone and make a cool hip and trendy suspicion Matrix.

Semaj wrote:
stessier wrote:
Semaj wrote: Withdraw Grundbegriff

Alrighty, lets keep him outta deaths reach for a bit longer, I kinda am enjoying all the posting and arguing.

What the heck? Don't want to be on the vote with your Buddy?
Yeah thats it. Or that I'll be gone for the next 12-14 hours are lord knows what tomfoolery can occur in that time. Like WW saying: O noes I'm WW and he's actually an aquaman or some nonsense. The way this game is working, Why take the risk?

Semaj wrote:Uhg,... reading, but it looks like Grund be Dead..
If he comes up Aquaman (Which I think he is) Im'a be irate. Because then I have to read through all his posts and the vote counts and make some calculations. And well While I'm only 13 (alcoholic) shots in (me) today, thinking isnt my strong suit (At the moment, no slams on that one ).

Yeah I am counting 9....

Alright... CHAOS?!?! Let us know how smart/dumb we may have been.

Semaj wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Now that you're sober, get your vote off me and let's find Lex, Joker, or Harley.
FTR I almost re-voted for him myself for that comment. It reeked of more wolf than Mr Bubbles does. Except by that point I decided Gund was actually good and just not giving the whole reasoning for his methodology. I got the feeling because he was making a lot of the same arguments I would have. For instance, while a lot of you hate the superman idea, it was the right argument to make (Using him is better than not using him, even if you dont save a day, you save the people who haven't revealed themselves so the WW's have to scan more and kill Supes. Our unknown pool doesn't get smaller, but their unknown pool doesn't either.

Lets see what the night brings... I'm going to work in a few hours for like only 8 or 9 hours tonight, yay.

Semaj wrote:if you tell WW who to compel, they have a good chance (the evildoers of well, not picking that person.) As such we lose a solid chance to gain a day/block who they try to kill.

MM pick a wolf of some kind, or one you believe to be a wolf. WW do whatever the hell you want

And:
You suspect me? BAH... well I cant blame ya, lol. I mean since I'm not a trusted, I can't prove my usefulness until the day the evildoes drop me. However, lets think about the brainpower behind todays lynching and perhaps rethink who we decide runs the lynch trains. I don't disagree with the lynch, but I do think your refusal to acknowledge anyone else as a possible lynch hurts us in the long run. We mine as well blindly pick someone, lynch em and hope.

Maybe if we had jumped on Mr Bubbles or Scoop or Austin, we might have bagged a wolf. I know you cant ever trust grundle since he's a monster evil player. But you don't always roll evil, so either you have to start reading the person or get stuck in a mode of assuming the worst. I'm just lucky we didn't have 2 or 3 more days played in 300 or I'd probably have been a real strong day 1 lynch possibility. yet, the fact remains I am playing for the good guys and eventually it will come out. Whether by you killing me hoping I'm bad or by WW announcing she checked me and I'm good. As such I play to win, not to get lucky. So i got this tremendous bit of advice for ya...

Relax, read, breath, meditate, calm down, analyze. Going willy nilly into oblivion may be fun, but it kills our chances at winning.

Semaj, are you in politics? This amount of flip-flopping would make you a shoe-in for any office in the nation.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:46 am

Final Vote Count - Monday

Scoop20906 acc stessier(1)
triggercut acc stessier(2)
Newcastle acc Scoop20906(1)
Sectoid acc Austin(1)
Austin acc Sectoid(1)
tru1cy acc Austin(2)
Semaj acc triggercut(1)
Lassr acc JimDave(1)
Sean, the Minister of KtSP acc Scoop20906(2)
stessier acc RevHempus71(1)
RevHempus71 acc Scoop20906(3)
Remus West acc Semaj(1)
RevHempus71 wd Scoop20906(2)
RevHempus71 acc stessier(3)
tru1cy acc Austin
stessier wd RevHempus 71(0)
stessier acc JimDave(2)
RevHempus71 wd stessier(2)
Lassr wd JimDave(1)
Remus West wd Semaj(0)
Remus West acc Kraegor(1)
Semaj wd triggercut(0)
Semaj acc Kraegor(2)
Newcastle wd Scoop20906(1)
Newcastle acc Mr. Bubbles(1)
Austin wd Sectoid(0)
Austin acc Grundbegriff(1)
Newcastle wd Mr. Bubbles(0)
Newcastle acc Sectoid (1)
Kraegor acc Newcastle(1)
Lassr acc Sean, Minister of KtSP(1)
Newcastle wd Sectoid(0)
Newcastle acc Grundbegriff(2)
Unagi acc Newcastle(2)
Mr. Bubbles acc Newcastle(3)
Sean, Minister of KtSP wd Scoop20906(0)
Sean, Minister of KtSP acc Semaj(1)
stessier wd JimDave(0)
stessier acc Austin(3)
triggercut wd stessier(1)
triggercut acc Austin(4)
Lassr wd Sean, Minister of KtSP(0)
Lassr acc Kraegor(3)
Semaj wd Kraegor(2)
Semaj acc RevHempus71(1)
RevHempus71 acc Semaj(2)
RevHempus71 wd Semaj(1)
Semaj wd RevHempus71(0)
Kraegor wd Newcastle(2)
Kraegor acc Austin(5)
tru1cy wd Austin(4)
tru1cy acc tru1cy(1)
Lassr wd Kraegor(1)
Lassr acc Scoop20906(1)
Sean, Minister of KtSP wd Semaj(0)
Sean, Minister of KtSP acc Kraegor(2)
Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)
Austin acc Kraegor(3)
Semaj acc Grundbegriff(2)
Grundbegriff acc Newcastle(3)
Austin wd Kaegor(2)
triggercut wd Austin(3)
triggercut acc Newcastle(4)
Austin acc Newcastle(5)
Kraegor wd Austin(2)
Kraegor acc Newcastle(6)
Remus West wd Kraegor(1)
Semaj wd Grundbegriff(1)
Semaj acc Newcastle(7)
triggercut wd Newcastle(6)
Semaj wd Newcastle(5)
triggercut acc Scoop20906(2)
Semaj acc stessier(2)
Austin wd Newcastle(4)
Austin acc JimDave(1)
Grundbegriff wd Newcastle(3)
Unagi wd Newcastle(2)
Unagi acc Scoop20906(3)
stessier wd Austin(1)
stessier acc Scoop20906(4)
Mr. Bubbles wd Newcastle(1)
Grundbegriff acc Scoop20906(5)
Remus West acc Grundbegriff(2)
Sectoid wd Austin(0)
Sectoid acc Grundbegriff(3)
Grundbegriff wd Scoop20906(4)
Grundbegriff acc Remus West(1)
Sean, Minister of KtSP wd Kraegor(0)
Sean, Minister of KtSP acc Remus West(2)
triggercut wd Scoop20906(3)
triggercut acc Grundbegriff(4)
Sean, Minister of KtSP wd Remus West(1)
Semaj wd stesssier(1)
Semaj acc Grundbegriff(5)
Mr. Bubbles acc Grundbegriff(6)
Mr. Bubbles wd Grundbegriff(5)
Semaj wd Grundbegriff(5)
Semaj acc Mr. Bubbles(1)
Unagi acc Grundbegriff(5)
Semaj acc Grundbegriff(6)
Austin wd JimDave(0)
Austin acc Grundbegriff(7)
Lassr wd Scoop20906(1)
Lassr acc Grundbegriff(8)
Semaj wd Grundbegriff(7)
Kraegor wd Newcastle(0)
Kraegor acc Grundbegriff(8)
RevHempus71 acc Grundbegriff(9)

Vote to Somehow Kill the Evil Ones: 9

Against Grundbegriff(9): Newcastle, Remus West, Sectoid, triggercut, Unagi, Austin, Lassr, Kraegor, RevHempus71
Against Remus West(1): Grundbegriff
Against Scoop20906(1): stessier
Against stessier(1): Scoop20906
Against tru1cy(1): tru1cy

No Votes Registered: JimDave, Mr. Bubbles, Sean, Minister of KtSP, Semaj

Let me know if I messed anything up.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:11 am

Scoop20906 acc stessier(1)

triggercut acc stessier(2)
triggercut wd stessier(1)
triggercut acc Austin(4)
triggercut wd Austin(3)
triggercut acc Newcastle(4)
triggercut wd Newcastle(6)
triggercut acc Scoop20906(2)
triggercut wd Scoop20906(3)
triggercut acc Grundbegriff(4)

Newcastle acc Scoop20906(1)
Newcastle wd Scoop20906(1)
Newcastle acc Mr. Bubbles(1)
Newcastle wd Mr. Bubbles(0)
Newcastle acc Sectoid (1)
Newcastle wd Sectoid(0)
Newcastle acc Grundbegriff(2)

Sectoid acc Austin(1)
Sectoid wd Austin(0)
Sectoid acc Grundbegriff(3)

Austin acc Sectoid(1)
Austin wd Sectoid(0)
Austin acc Grundbegriff(1)
Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)
Austin acc Kraegor(3)
Austin wd Kaegor(2)
Austin acc Newcastle(5)
Austin wd Newcastle(4)
Austin acc JimDave(1)
Austin wd JimDave(0)
Austin acc Grundbegriff(7)

tru1cy acc Austin(2)
tru1cy wd Austin(4)
tru1cy acc tru1cy(1)

Semaj acc triggercut(1)
Semaj wd triggercut(0)
Semaj acc Kraegor(2)
Semaj wd Kraegor(2)
Semaj acc RevHempus71(1)
Semaj wd RevHempus71(0)
Semaj acc Grundbegriff(2)
Semaj wd Grundbegriff(1)
Semaj acc Newcastle(7)
Semaj wd Newcastle(5)
Semaj acc stessier(2)
Semaj wd stesssier(1)
Semaj acc Grundbegriff(5)
Semaj wd Grundbegriff(5)
Semaj acc Mr. Bubbles(1)
Semaj acc Grundbegriff(6)
Semaj wd Grundbegriff(7)

Lassr acc JimDave(1)
Lassr wd JimDave(1)
Lassr acc Sean, Minister of KtSP(1)
Lassr wd Sean, Minister of KtSP(0)
Lassr acc Kraegor(3)
Lassr wd Kraegor(1)
Lassr acc Scoop20906(1)
Lassr wd Scoop20906(1)
Lassr acc Grundbegriff(8)

Sean, the Minister of KtSP acc Scoop20906(2)
Sean, Minister of KtSP wd Scoop20906(0)
Sean, Minister of KtSP acc Semaj(1)
Sean, Minister of KtSP wd Semaj(0)
Sean, Minister of KtSP acc Kraegor(2)
Sean, Minister of KtSP wd Kraegor(0)
Sean, Minister of KtSP acc Remus West(2)
Sean, Minister of KtSP wd Remus West(1)

stessier acc RevHempus71(1)
stessier wd RevHempus 71(0)
stessier acc JimDave(2)
stessier wd JimDave(0)
stessier acc Austin(3)
stessier wd Austin(1)
stessier acc Scoop20906(4)

RevHempus71 acc Scoop20906(3)
RevHempus71 wd Scoop20906(2)
RevHempus71 acc stessier(3)
RevHempus71 wd stessier(2)
RevHempus71 acc Semaj(2)
RevHempus71 wd Semaj(1)
RevHempus71 acc Grundbegriff(9)

Remus West acc Semaj(1)
Remus West wd Semaj(0)
Remus West acc Kraegor(1)
Remus West wd Kraegor(1)
Remus West acc Grundbegriff(2)

Kraegor acc Newcastle(1)
Kraegor wd Newcastle(2)
Kraegor acc Austin(5)
Kraegor wd Austin(2)
Kraegor acc Newcastle(6)
Kraegor wd Newcastle(0)
Kraegor acc Grundbegriff(8)

Unagi acc Newcastle(2)
Unagi wd Newcastle(2)
Unagi acc Scoop20906(3)
Unagi acc Grundbegriff(5)

Mr. Bubbles acc Newcastle(3)
Mr. Bubbles wd Newcastle(1)
Mr. Bubbles acc Grundbegriff(6)
Mr. Bubbles wd Grundbegriff(5)

Grundbegriff acc Newcastle(3)
Grundbegriff wd Newcastle(3)
Grundbegriff acc Scoop20906(5)
Grundbegriff wd Scoop20906(4)
Grundbegriff acc Remus West(1)

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:26 am

Semaj wrote:
if you tell WW who to compel, they have a good chance (the evildoers of well, not picking that person.) As such we lose a solid chance to gain a day/block who they try to kill.

MM pick a wolf of some kind, or one you believe to be a wolf. WW do whatever the hell you want

Good lord. Even Grund admitted that this gambit was a godawful one for the JLA. Hi Lex.

MM is out. He must talk to *someone* today. The badguys will know whether he's talking to one of them. If he isn't, they can kill him, and get a twofer on the death tip, and his death tells us nothing. MM in his quest for a badguy may even pick another hero, and we lose that.

Yes, excellent strategy. If you're in the LoD.

Wonder Woman must compel MM if she can legally do so. He must talk to a trusted hero, either myself or Remus. That at least keeps the badguys guessing on whom to kill.

Tomorrow, it should be everyone out, because MM will no longer be eligible to be compelled, so he can no longer be saved at night during his talk. He needs to know who the heroes are, so he can pick from the pool of the unknowns to chat with. He survives, and we need to think about lynching whomever his chat choice was.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:45 am

stessier wrote: Semaj, are you in politics? This amount of flip-flopping would make you a shoe-in for any office in the nation.

Newp

I'da loved some timestamps....

Jumped on the newcastle bandwagon once the lynch train got a rolling. Grnd made a mildly compelling argument. And almost all the votes occured right around the same time (For 4-7). LIke as in, During the lost post episode of day 1. I assumed Newcastle would put up some kinda nifty and efficient defense. Instead Newcastle more or less kept acting goofy. Still, well before he would have died or there was a need to drop votes, Triggercut went silly. Irritating as hell.

On Grund:
I was torn, The way he started playing the game was vintage Grund from DR, when he wasn't evil. HE picked a target and went apeshit on em, just to get things moving and see what happened. Its how he got triggercut outed as judas if I recall correctly while outing Unagi and himself as powereds. As such Trigg had a unhealthy obsession in getting even this game and if he and you weren't proven, I got monies that says grund would still be alive.

Grund was making all the arguments I would have about the superman play. About what certain specials should have done and whom to protect or how we should proceed. So if he was evil, so was I and I sure as hell wasn't evil. Still All our proven wanted him dead, and well, they were proven. Its not like I could assume they were wolves, they were the holy trinity or whom to work with to find the bad guys. Even if some seemed hellbent on ignoring anyone else as a possible suspect.

Mr Bubbles made me go: He hasn't even been on the vote that long and he jumps on and jumps off that fast? So I switched to him and realized not a one of you felt the urge to vote for him. I tried a few times to get people to switch votes, throw him out there as Evil and none of you listened (Go look at all my posts). I was still torn on Grund because as he defended himself he refuse to admit his part in the outting of 4 people. Yes it was poor play on certain peoples behalfs, but he still had a role he didn't want to admit to. And drunk it made a lot of sense. When I woke up several hours later, it seemed less like a good idea so I removed it and went to work saying I would more or less have no part in the grund lynch. I couldn't say I know for 100% certainty he wasn't evil, because you cant ever know, but there were plenty of other people so if they wanted him lynched they could do it while I was gone for 14+ hours.

Then afterwards, rather than point fingers and lay blame I said: I see where you all were coming from and I dont blame you for doing it. Nice try on the kill, don't let it stop you from trying to kill evildoers in the future. You know, none of that: CRAP WHAT DO WE DO NOW? shit that always seems like it demoralizes the good guys.

I _love_ to throw my vote around, its part of how I make reads on people. However pointing out I do it isnt going to make me change how I play, I like doing it, it's fun as opposed to not saying much of anything and then throwing out some random jokes or useless information trying to pass yourself off as a good guy. I'm here, I'll be in the middle of everything that happens until the Wolves kill me, until WW scans me and lets everyone know who I am or until you get that posse you are trying to lay the groundwork for to kill me. And if thats how you all want to vote tomorrow, so be it, but it's another big loss for the good guys.

I have a lot of questions I'd like to ask myself, but I was hoping we'd have some daytime to argue them in. Since we should all be sleeping. Maybe I stuck a nerve and the wolves will kill me tonight, which is why I posted some explanations for some of my actions. But, I think they have more important targets available. So, if you want to continue this argument in the morning, by all means, until such a time, goodnight.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:59 am

triggercut wrote:
Semaj wrote:
if you tell WW who to compel, they have a good chance (the evildoers of well, not picking that person.) As such we lose a solid chance to gain a day/block who they try to kill.

MM pick a wolf of some kind, or one you believe to be a wolf. WW do whatever the hell you want
Good lord. Even Grund admitted that this gambit was a godawful one for the JLA. Hi Lex.

He never admitted it was godawful he said: fine if we aren't going to use it, what now? Read more, pay better attention.

triggercut wrote: MM is out. He must talk to *someone* today. The badguys will know whether he's talking to one of them. If he isn't, they can kill him, and get a twofer on the death tip, and his death tells us nothing. MM in his quest for a badguy may even pick another hero, and we lose that.

If you want MM to live, he talks to the very safe newcastle. WW protects him and we give up supes and Newcastle to possible deaths.
If MM talks to either of you two and WW protects him, he and you can still die. Would you read the god damn rules already? Seriously, you pulled the trigger with the arrow and you dont even know what it does. Newcaslte is safe from attack tonight, unless MM gets killed while talking to him.

I am assuming MM makes contact with someone and them PM's them to tell them something. I do not know for sure, this isnt explained anywhere. As such if he makes contact With Mr Bubbles, my defacto evil guy atm, and never pm's them how would they know he made contact with them? Unless Chaos announces that he makes conatct, its hard to know. So say they dont know who he has contacted, and they kill him, mr bubbles dies to. Now if he is a wolf, woot. If not, they were not attacking Mr bubbles anyways, they wanted MM dead. yes its a gamble, but the wolves could be nervous enough about being killed to leave MM alone. How is this, in all, in any form, a bad play?

triggercut wrote: Yes, excellent strategy. If you're in the LoD.

This is the excellent arguing technique you used to kill Grund. Clearly he was the joker who needed to die. Shame Aquaman is now dead. This was why I posted that whole you need to relax and read more and work things out better.

triggercut wrote: Wonder Woman must compel MM if she can legally do so. He must talk to a trusted hero, either myself or Remus. That at least keeps the badguys guessing on whom to kill.

I explained why this is the dumbest idea I have ever heard above. In the future how about we say: You got a 50 50 chance of killing 2 guys including the one WW is wasting her time protecting. Who can no longer be protected in the future. And they have to do it, because newcastle is untouchable. Yes we in theory have a 50 50 chance of not dying tonight, but I dont like the odds.

triggercut wrote: Tomorrow, it should be everyone out, because MM will no longer be eligible to be compelled, so he can no longer be saved at night during his talk. He needs to know who the heroes are, so he can pick from the pool of the unknowns to chat with. He survives, and we need to think about lynching whomever his chat choice was.

What if it was a wolf? or someone you cant prove who it is. MM cannot, in any form, find out who someone is, he can ask, they can lie. Thats WW's job. I'd kill for WW to scan me tonight. Just so with your godawful strategy of everyone coming out tomorrow, when I came out clean, I could stop the nonsense.

If you weren't a proven, I'd think you were a wolf with the bad strategies.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:30 am

triggercut wrote:
Austin wrote:Shhhh... Night time...

Chaosraven wrote:Any player may post in the thread whatever they wish during the Night.

(Posting as I read so it might be addressed)

Triggercut, my "shhhhh night time" has nothing to do with the rules. Night talk (except for your suggestions on what WW/MM et al should do, doesn't help us. It only gives the bad guys more info to work with. Just because it's allowed, doesn't make it a good idea.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:31 am

Lassr wrote:
Austin wrote:Shhhh... Night time...
speaking of quiet players...

Grasping at straws aren't you? I did enjoy my 4th up at a rental house in the NC mountains though.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:39 am

I said wrote:I explained why this is the dumbest idea I have ever heard above. In the future how about we say: You got a 50 50 chance of killing 2 guys including the one WW is wasting her time protecting. Who can no longer be protected in the future. And they have to do it, because newcastle is untouchable. Yes we in theory have a 50 50 chance of not dying tonight, but I dont like the odds.

Oh wait my bad, its a 50% chance of 2 people dying and 50% chance of 1 person dying. Not that I've ever done math in any form

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:39 am

Addendum to the above post to Lassr.

You know as I reread and catch up, you really do seem to be nudging toward me every chance you get. This is a departure from your typical bolding of my name and outright accusation. What's changed?

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:39 am

Austin wrote:
Lassr wrote:
Austin wrote:Shhhh... Night time...
speaking of quiet players...
Grasping at straws aren't you? I did enjoy my 4th up at a rental house in the NC mountains though.

On a related note:

How was the trip?

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:41 am

Semaj wrote: If you want MM to live, he talks to the very safe newcastle. WW protects him and we give up supes and Newcastle to possible deaths.

Read as: MM and Newcastle would be protected and You and Supes would be possible kills. I missed that one in my re read. Caught it in the re re re read, heh.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:42 am

Okay. What if GL zapped MM tonight or another night when MM is a likely target. MM will have the chance to speak to someone one - then zap - and then if he's attacked only MM will die right? Or don't do it tonight and save it for another night but keep them guessing. There are some interesting angles here.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:51 am

Semaj wrote:
On a related note:

How was the trip?

Excellent. QP + family, my little brother + wife, my sisters + families, and dad + wife etc... Our kids were extremely well behaved and the fireworks were not rained out. Definitely a 8.5/10 as far as family gatherings go. That was Thurs-Sun and now I work two days and am off from Wed until the 21st.

I'll have the Internets up in Canada though as I'll be staying at qp's.

Sorta Edit without editing: And I just ran into the annoying nested limit again.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:53 am

Oh and, I half expected to be blocked here today. I thought they were starting to block us on Thursday but they haven't gotten around to it yet. One of the good things in working for a lumbering giant I guess.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:11 am

Austin wrote:Okay. What if GL zapped MM tonight or another night when MM is a likely target. MM will have the chance to speak to someone one - then zap - and then if he's attacked only MM will die right? Or don't do it tonight and save it for another night but keep them guessing. There are some interesting angles here.

Its somethign that wouldnt be a bad idea if everyone agreed to it, but lthat lets the bad guys know its going to occur.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:14 am

Semaj wrote:
Austin wrote:Okay. What if GL zapped MM tonight or another night when MM is a likely target. MM will have the chance to speak to someone one - then zap - and then if he's attacked only MM will die right? Or don't do it tonight and save it for another night but keep them guessing. There are some interesting angles here.
Its somethign that wouldnt be a bad idea if everyone agreed to it, but lthat lets the bad guys know its going to occur.

No. GL knows who MM is. He can do it or not on his own accord.