WW - OO JL : Game Over

[Semaj]

I'm not at the center of those activities; I deplore them as borderline incompetent.

No arguement there, they were incompetent, but you saying you had nothing to do with them insults more intelligence than Jessica Simpson on a quiz show.

Yes, I jumped on the Newcastle bandwagon, but

Heh. Don't pretend there's method to your madness; you're clearly winging it.

LIES! (shh)

As such, I begin to see more and more of a pattern of self defense and no offense....
...
I called you a possible joker a while back and you ignored this, not only that but you have ignored every other comment on that front.

Contradict yourself much? I'm only self-defensive, and yet I don't defend myself? I'm avoiding offense, and yet I'm at the center of all the mayhem?

I was drunk, a pattern of more and more defense probably would have sufficed. And like I said, you are notorious for your ability to get a good lynch train a rolling. You started out real offensive and OVER TIME you have slowly switched it up. As if, perhaps, you are a wolf who's getting cornered.

Show me a reason, and a good one, that you should not be thrown before the JLA and destroyed for one and all. Or else, you should be damned.

I shouldn't be destroyed because I'm (a) a member of the Justice League, and (b) an asset to the team. That's the complete case.

I'd argue B more than A since A means you could be a villain in a hero's guise.

And I'd agree with B if you were not such a phenominal first night conversion attempt.

I really need to get drunk more often, I sound all important and shit

Man, I had tied off like 20 shots last night... I'm still liquered now... lol.

[Semaj]

 Withdraw Grundbegriff 
 


Alrighty, lets keep him outta deaths reach for a bit longer, I kinda am enjoying all the posting and arguing.

[Grundbegriff]

Now that you're sober, get your vote off me and let's find Lex, Joker, or Harley.

[Newcastle]

Ok, everybody. It is now 2:33 am. I just got home from the hospital with my dad. he is very very sick. I was there since 2 pm. I was trying to get caught up but I am too tired at this point. I will have some time to share my thoughts after some sleep.

dude, i hope everything goes well and turn out alright. As far as I am concerned you get a free pass, ....take care of yuor pops and family business; this is a just a game.

[Chaosraven]

Chaosraven: is Manhunter allowed to report into the thread during his nighttime dialogue?. For example, could he report in the thread that Bubba claims to be Batman as soon as Bubba tells him this?

Any player may post in the thread whatever they wish during the Night.

Green Lantern should use the ring on every single lynch we do from here on out.

Note to Chaosraven: that's another way this ruleset is broken. Joker works only when GL is dead, since GL has no reason to use his ring at night anyhow.

Ruleset includes GL as he is the counter to Joker if GL is still alive.

[Semaj]

I'll be working from 2-1am EST and then hitting a bar for about an hour (or 5, twitch) for food. Hence the reason for my withdrawal atm. There are 4 of you who dont have votes out and several who can move, you dont need me to drop him like a bad habbit. But he does deserve his chance to argue a little more...

[Semaj]

Now that you're sober, get your vote off me and let's find Lex, Joker, or Harley.

You're slow

[stessier]

This role was made for my play style.

I think it was made for Chaos' play style actually. As someone noted earlier - this was a get out of lynch free card. This was Kraegor's card to get - this was Remus' card to get... Not yours.

You act like losing one of ours is a good thing because we might get one of theirs.

Um, no - I admit that normals are expendable, that we (everyone) will let a special save himself before we lynch them - and that the only way to win is to take the risk that you may hit a Normal. Think about every day you've played in every WW-game. You really think it would be BEST to just skip a day? The way you and Grund describe it --> Chaos put this role in the game to be used Day 1 as a "Heroes would like to obstain from the day, lets move back into night again." manuever.

really?

This question always seems to come up in these games. It just isn't worth arguing anymore. People don't agree with me. Heck, even Grund usually doesn't agree. But this time is different. This time Superman doesn't die. That's why it makes sense.

But whatever. No one is listening.

I'm not voting for Grund. Look at what he's said. It's not bad Grund talking. It's not what he was like on the Floating Point.

If they dont wanna vote for supes... Who do we vote for? Enquiring minds need a good chuckle.

(Even money says he says lassr or Austin)

This is a fair question and the only way we can move forward.

I am still bugged by Scoop, but Mr. Bubbles shot way up the list with his little vote/no vote move. The list gets more crowded after that. Those are my two strongest feelings, though, and I'd vote for either.

[stessier]

Oh, and I don't think I have been all that quiet. I think I've had around 40+ posts.
Plus, I can't post as much at work anymore either. They are watching.

That's it for me tonight. Might be around in the morning.

I'll keep my vote on scoop for now (I know it seems like a safe vote but I'm really not sure where I'd want to move it right now).

Wait, are you keeping a post count for yourself? Why?

(where is the shifty eye icon when you need it???)

[stessier]

I thought Sean had outed Austin as Superman, and was trying to get him to shut up. Fortunately, we've learned that Sean knows how to control himself and keep a secret... uhm....

So that's why he was in the Hall.

Yeah, didn't see that.

[stessier]

Ok, everybody. It is now 2:33 am. I just got home from the hospital with my dad. he is very very sick. I was there since 2 pm. I was trying to get caught up but I am too tired at this point. I will have some time to share my thoughts after some sleep.

Take care of your family, Rev. This is just a stupid game. My prayers are with you!

[Chaosraven]

Against Remus West(1): Grundbegriff,
Against Grundbegriff(7): Newcastle, Remus West, Sectoid, triggercut, Unagi, Austin, Lassr
Against Newcastle(1): Kraegor
Against Scoop20906(1): stessier
Against stessier(1): Scoop20906
Against tru1cy(1): tru1cy

No Votes Registered: JimDave, Mr Bubbles, RevHempus71, Sean Minister of KtSP, Semaj

[Semaj]

If they dont wanna vote for supes... Who do we vote for? Enquiring minds need a good chuckle.

(Even money says he says lassr or Austin)

This is a fair question and the only way we can move forward.

I am still bugged by Scoop, but Mr. Bubbles shot way up the list with his little vote/no vote move. The list gets more crowded after that. Those are my two strongest feelings, though, and I'd vote for either.

Right now my big questionsmarks are:
Mr bubbles
Austin
Rev

Moderate Questionmarks:
Grund
You (I know, I know, but you are)
Lassr
Sectoid

Someday I'ma have to look at everyone and make a cool hip and trendy suspicion Matrix.

[Newcastle]

Stessier - this is exactly how he played on the kaos game. Reluctant at first to get in, a bit of sparring. The vacation thing (i admit am sure it's real). But even when he had a chance to pipe in, one of his first comments was how the ruleset was broken. He was slow to come online into the game.

Let me ask you this -

What new information do we gain by lynching remus? We GAIN nothing. Nothing.

What guarantee do we have that WW will survive?

We are basically playing a hand where we are hoping that WW will survive another night or two and tehn come out on day 3 with a bigger block.

What happens if they found out WW last night and tonight they are her target? We will have that much less data to work with. We will have used one less lynch, and one less day's worth of voting records. To lynch a known superman is foolish, to lynch an unknown superman is a great play.


When have you ever heard of Grund askign for a time out? Yeah I know new rule twist; but Grund ALWAYS has a short lifespan, and he tries to squeeze AS MUCH as he can from the day, that includes multiple wagons. He knows he is dead by day 2-3. And now he's asking for a timeout on the lynch? Isn't he part of hte unknown pile as well? Wouldn't he be a target as well.

Seriously wouldn't a good grund try to squeeze as much as he can from the day?

This is a grund who doesn't fear the night, he's encouraging it, because he and his buddies can play at night.

Look what he's done...asked and prodded for specials to come out...hmm nice....ok...

When Green Arrow stepped forward - why didn't he say stop....and then try to quiz me further to "see" if more information could be forthcoming? That maybe I would slip. Instead he said "fascinating". He was bout to lose the chance to talk to an evil one, instead he just grew quiet and waited for things to play out.

Why did Grund pull this superman bit AFTER me being the bandwagon? It's only afterwards did he go...yeah superman, great idea for a lynch.

Grund was not curious who my "allies" were...he was just driving the wagon.

IF we had no clue to whom to lynch then yeah I would suggest we think about lynching superman....but we got ourselves a fat ole evil one squirming in our hands. Just put him out of his misery.

[stessier]

Or can you be sent over the falls?

I'm an Aquaman.

There's a joke in there somewhere...

[stessier]

 Withdraw Grundbegriff 
 


Alrighty, lets keep him outta deaths reach for a bit longer, I kinda am enjoying all the posting and arguing.

What the heck? Don't want to be on the vote with your Buddy?

[Grundbegriff]

Now that you're sober, get your vote off me and let's find Lex, Joker, or Harley.

You're slow

Timestamps. It was a simulpost!

[Grundbegriff]

Ok, everybody. It is now 2:33 am. I just got home from the hospital with my dad. he is very very sick. I was there since 2 pm. I was trying to get caught up but I am too tired at this point. I will have some time to share my thoughts after some sleep.

Take care of your family, Rev. This is just a stupid game. My prayers are with you!

+1+

[Semaj]

 Withdraw Grundbegriff 
 


Alrighty, lets keep him outta deaths reach for a bit longer, I kinda am enjoying all the posting and arguing.

What the heck? Don't want to be on the vote with your Buddy?

Yeah thats it. Or that I'll be gone for the next 12-14 hours are lord knows what tomfoolery can occur in that time. Like WW saying: O noes I'm WW and he's actually an aquaman or some nonsense. The way this game is working, Why take the risk?

[stessier]

Stessier - this is exactly how he played on the kaos game. Reluctant at first to get in, a bit of sparring. The vacation thing (i admit am sure it's real). But even when he had a chance to pipe in, one of his first comments was how the ruleset was broken. He was slow to come online into the game.

That's not what I remember, but I may have had a different view as the Chief. I also remember reading the KAOS forums afterwards and comparing that to what he wrote in game. It's just not the same in my book. And I'm not defending him point by point. Taken as a whole, I don't think this is Evil Grund.

Let me ask you this -

What new information do we gain by lynching remus? yada yada yada

I'm done arguing this point. It's not going to happen and we don't agree with each other. I'm looking at Scoop and Mr. Bubbles at the top of my list. Second tier is more crowded.

[stessier]

 Withdraw Grundbegriff 
 


Alrighty, lets keep him outta deaths reach for a bit longer, I kinda am enjoying all the posting and arguing.

What the heck? Don't want to be on the vote with your Buddy?

Yeah thats it. Or that I'll be gone for the next 12-14 hours are lord knows what tomfoolery can occur in that time. Like WW saying: O noes I'm WW and he's actually an aquaman or some nonsense. The way this game is working, Why take the risk?

You are on my Good list. Why are you doing this???

Why would WW save an Aquaman???????????????

[Grundbegriff]

Ok, look. Having come to the brink of death, I'm now bored with the Superman thing and in the mood for blood.

It's like McCain and the immigration bill. The people want the border sealed first, before any talk of an immigration bill.

Fine. We obviously lack the collective will to cash Superman in. I do not think WW should be wasted keeping him alive. Therefore, Remus (uncontested in his Supermaniacal claim) is functionally equivalent to an Aquaman as far as I'm concerned-- just another body buttressing our numbers.

The salient question, then, is whom to kill. As I said before, the Justice League has done such a good job of tearing itself apart that I think it highly likely that two of the three are among folks who have kept a low profile. But which?

[Grundbegriff]

I also remember reading the KAOS forums afterwards and comparing that to what he wrote in game. It's just not the same in my book.

How would you summarize or characterize what you saw when you made that comparison?

[Grundbegriff]

I'm looking at Scoop and Mr. Bubbles at the top of my list. Second tier is more crowded.

I could vote against either. Both have been riding the ambiguous middle of my suspicion matrix, with Scoop tilting slightly toward evil, and Bubbles tilting slightly toward good.

The weird way Bubbles went onto the anti-me bandwagon and then hopped off again puzzles me. However, I can't decide whether it was Evil Blundering or Good Dithering.

[Newcastle]

/comes out of the kitchen with a plate of steaming ribs

"got a plate full of ribs here guys, I know it's been a tough day throwing Grund under the bus, but got just enough ribs for 16 hungry folks"

/sees Grund still alive

"you're still here?"

/rolls eyes, and heads back to the kitchen with the steaming plate of ribs
/mutters

"we feast later"

[Semaj]

What the heck? Don't want to be on the vote with your Buddy?

Yeah thats it. Or that I'll be gone for the next 12-14 hours are lord knows what tomfoolery can occur in that time. Like WW saying: O noes I'm WW and he's actually an aquaman or some nonsense. The way this game is working, Why take the risk?

You are on my Good list. Why are you doing this???

Why would WW save an Aquaman???????????????

Heavy dose of sarcasm, but on the math side, if WW came out with an aquaman and everyone else superpowered outted themselves I think we'd up with that mathmatical win situation. _But_ like I said, the way everyone feels the urge to out themselves this game, I refuse to assume for even an instant something else insane(ly dumb) won't happen.

[Grundbegriff]

"got a plate full of ribs here guys, I know it's been a tough day throwing Grund under the bus, but got just enough ribs for 16 hungry folks"

/sees Grund still alive

"you're still here?"

/rolls eyes, and heads back to the kitchen with the steaming plate of ribs

No worries. I only like seafood.

[Unagi]

That turn did puzzle me. Grund just jumped high with that reversal.  Grundbegriff 
 

Do you think I'd make it easy if I were evil? Didn't you see the Controlled KAOS game?

Please don't tell me you're evil, Bubbles. It'd be so disappointing to see you and Lassr showing up all the veterans who can't manage to read me.

I'll tell you what  withdraw Grundbegriff 
 
I'll give it another go around and promise you a fair trial. I will post my final vote later tonight.

Never did.

[Chaosraven]

Time for a nap.

Will check back later.

[Unagi]

Now that you're sober, get your vote off me and let's find Lex, Joker, or Harley.

So , now that you are a 'Self Proclaimed' Non-Special... we should drop the idea of lynching Superman, and start looking for Doomers?


I am curious to see how stessier moves on you claim of Aquaman.

Stessier, do you see any reason not to take the safe route now and just lynch Grund, who is now a useless cover for Night Kills (if he's not evil, they won't be killing him at night until he's "proven").

If we take a page out of Grund's book.... (Back at the Newcastle vote) - - If at N-1 votes you don't claim special, we lynch.

Our options are:
1) Lynch Grundbegriff
2) Lynch Superman
3) Run another up in votes and see if they are a special.

3 is a joke.
2 is pointless - as we already have a better 'safe option' -> Grundbegriff.

[triggercut]

I'll give it another go around and promise you a fair trial. I will post my final vote later tonight.

Never did.

Nope. He and Semaj have rocketed to the top o' the list.

After Grundbeguilty, of course.

[Kraegor]

I believe it's safe to say the cow has been milked. Time to put it to pasture.

 Grundbegriff 
 


regardless of guilt innocence at this point, killing him will simply provide clarity. You won't be getting more by waiting for more analysis. Grund can keep this dance up indefinitely.

[Newcastle]

Against Remus West(1): Grundbegriff,
Against Grundbegriff(7): Newcastle, Remus West, Sectoid, triggercut, Unagi, Austin, Lassr
Against Newcastle(1): Kraegor
Against Scoop20906(1): stessier
Against stessier(1): Scoop20906
Against tru1cy(1): tru1cy

No Votes Registered: JimDave, Mr Bubbles, RevHempus71, Sean Minister of KtSP, Semaj

---

So this is where the vote stands right now...i ask myself who have we not really heard from?

Austin - he did pipe in a bit earlier
Truicy -- shhh, he's taking a nap
JimDave - I think it's fair to say that he is gone from teh game


I was just thinking of those who we really haven't heard anything from and was trying to think of a blind spot is all.

[Newcastle]

Against Remus West(1): Grundbegriff,
Against Grundbegriff(8): Newcastle, Remus West, Sectoid, triggercut, Unagi, Austin, Lassr, Kraeggor
Against Scoop20906(1): stessier
Against stessier(1): Scoop20906
Against tru1cy(1): tru1cy

No Votes Registered: JimDave, Mr Bubbles, RevHempus71, Sean Minister of KtSP, Semaj

[Kraegor]

I know yer fond of my vote but I actually changed it. It's not you. It's me. Really... it's... not you...

[Unagi]

Ok, look. Having come to the brink of death, I'm now bored with the Superman thing and in the mood for blood.

It's like McCain and the immigration bill. The people want the border sealed first, before any talk of an immigration bill.

Fine. We obviously lack the collective will to cash Superman in. I do not think WW should be wasted keeping him alive. Therefore, Remus (uncontested in his Supermaniacal claim) is functionally equivalent to an Aquaman as far as I'm concerned-- just another body buttressing our numbers.

The salient question, then, is whom to kill. As I said before, the Justice League has done such a good job of tearing itself apart that I think it highly likely that two of the three are among folks who have kept a low profile. But which?

Priceless.
Why is it people aren't seeing this (stessier, of ALL people) is just hillarious.

You are all for finding LoD when you think Newcastle and Lassr are top suspects.
2 players are comfirmed as trusted and you shift to 'lets just move straight to night'
Then, you are brought to (N-1), declare Un-Trusted Aquaman, and want us to just move on and run antoher person up the flag pole.

Remus is more than an Aquaman - he's a trusted player. Um. ? Just another body buttressing our numbers? Bullshit.
Remus has gone from 'unknown' to 'trusted'. That's the whole heart of the game.

[triggercut]

Now that you're sober, get your vote off me and let's find Lex, Joker, or Harley.

So , now that you are a 'Self Proclaimed' Non-Special... we should drop the idea of lynching Superman, and start looking for Doomers?


I am curious to see how stessier moves on you claim of Aquaman.

Stessier, do you see any reason not to take the safe route now and just lynch Grund, who is now a useless cover for Night Kills (if he's not evil, they won't be killing him at night until he's "proven").

If we take a page out of Grund's book.... (Back at the Newcastle vote) - - If at N-1 votes you don't claim special, we lynch.

Our options are:
1) Lynch Grundbegriff
2) Lynch Superman
3) Run another up in votes and see if they are a special.

3 is a joke.
2 is pointless - as we already have a better 'safe option' -> Grundbegriff.

Bingo Bango Bongo and Irving.

There's no reason to vote for Superman/Remus now. We know he's Superman, as no one has counterclaimed him. (If someone *should* counterclaim him, then the New Superman On The Block gets to try his hand at the gallows dance.) We have a safe choice for a vote if people are worried about lynching/outing another special in Grundbegriff, who has claimed Aquaman....

...a claim I'm not buying for a second, but at least he isn't one of our specials.

[Newcastle]

Man, scoop, you're missing out big time here pal, big time. Big, big big time. Grund is just sitting here waiting for ya man, waiting. He is going to be soo bummed he missed it.

[Grundbegriff]

Now that you're sober, get your vote off me and let's find Lex, Joker, or Harley.

So , now that you are a 'Self Proclaimed' Non-Special... we should drop the idea of lynching Superman, and start looking for Doomers?

I think I counseled that two pages ago:

I can see you're locked down in a battle of wills on this; no line of reasoning will move you.

The difference between using Superman today and wasting him on someday is real, but it probably won't swing the game. So suppose that Remus is off the table (since not even Sean, who outed him, wants him to be anything more than a placeholder). In that instance (and bracketing out your irrational, reactionary angle on me), whom do you suspect?

Know what I'd be doing right now, if I were evil? Sitting back and watching, and that's all. Those who have been co-evil with me know how often I counsel patience and quiet. Most of the evidence from this day will turn out to be wrinkles such as this one: who among those customarily engaged in deliberations is now just sitting back and watching the mutual undermining and autovitiation of the Justice League?

Stessier, do you see any reason not to take the safe route now and just lynch Grund

Are you evil, Unagi? You've been so uninvolved; however, now that you can smell blood, you're steppin' right up to try to push me over the brink.

who is now a useless cover for Night Kills (if he's not evil, they won't be killing him at night until he's "proven").

And their hesitating to nightkill me is bad... why?

If we take a page out of Grund's book.... (Back at the Newcastle vote) - - If at N-1 votes you don't claim special, we lynch.

Depends on the asset.

Our options are:
1) Lynch Grundbegriff
2) Lynch Superman
3) Run another up in votes and see if they are a special.

Correct. #2 is the rational choice, since it prevents the outing of the Specials who really matter, simplifies WW's night so she can gain intel, and leaves her safely in the shadows.

Sadly, only stessier, Kraegor, and I (and maybe one or two others) understand the importance of trading a risky assault for a guarantee of safety.

That leaves (1) and (3). If we encounter Wonder Woman or Batman via (3), what exactly are we going to do? We'll be blinded, one way or another. Meanwhile, doing (1) is definitely throwing the vote away on a non-Doomster.

3 is a joke.
2 is pointless - as we already have a better 'safe option' -> Grundbegriff.

Since Aquaman and Superman are functionally equivalent except for Superman's non-death, how is chipping away at our numbers safer than not doing so?

But seriously-- why do you regard (3) as a joke, when killing me is similar to a bad outcome of an attempt at (3)? Wouldn't that logically imply that killing me is a shortcut to the same joke?

[Newcastle]

/passes out the party hats and cake

/looks at his watch

/mutters

"come on, come on, just one more vote to send him over there. Just one more vote."