[WW]BSG IX -Cold Blood (Game over)

[Mr Bubbles]

hey now.. doing my write up tonight. Had to run a few errands, before the big reveal. I hope I'm not overselling this thing

[theohall]

Your guesses tend to be so off that I find it hard to be accidental, Theohall.

I'm referring to a vote against a suspected Galen - now that we have no reason to believe Athena is alive, and 2/3 chance that D'Anna is, we should take away her potential ability to convert Galen - assuming he isn't already there. I explained it several days ago, and rather than my typing s l o w e r & l o n g e r for your benefit, how about you connect some dots?

Redrun has since denied the role - but at the time, Remus (IIRC) had pointed out that was the most likely suspect.

At this point, I'm annoyed with you trying to muddy the waters, and am trying to decide if it's deliberate or not.

 /withdraw redrun 
 

And how is that for a non-answer? Avoiding all of the questions while presenting a counter-accusation. I am annoyed with you presenting horrible ideas for the good guys and redrun not mentioning you when you start something. Along with you suddenly accusing redrun after that accusation was brought to light.

 purge 
 


Yes. I took time to think about this. If you prove to be a Cylon, odds are redrun is the other evil cylon.

[Mr Bubbles]

So writing this from the beginning on. Watching RMC, because other than me, people complained he was also too silent. General ramblings for right now.
Night 1 - pr0ner night kill to start the game.
Day 1.

Not much to note. Qantaga seems to be helpful. Most everyone else, blowing smoke up each others asses. First day was a bunched of forced drama. Based on the turns of the game pr0ner seemed to be a random lynched, but that didn't seem to stop people from trying to be clever and make accusations that one or more of the evil from last game wanted to lynch pr0ner as revenge. Holman has his bad cylon moment. RMC insists, it must be random, because any other reason is because it will not end well. Vorret plays innocent. Unagi providing analysis, In retrospect I would have jumped on the Holman train right away. That seemed like a big slip up. Remus accuses theohall. I didn't see what made theohall look evil. Qantaga analysis seems pretty reasonable through the whole day. BB joins Remus implicating theohall. holman trying to meta game and claim noob status. RMC pokes his head in later to accuse me of being silent. While I know I am innocent, he seems to poke his head in just enough to put the suspicion on others. bb's analysis of lynching silent vs outing a special confuses me. He says

At this point CR has been so silent that I have to conclude it is on purpose. His silence means he is probably just a citizen and is ok with being lynched. It is like he is actively encouraging it.

I know CR was a major distraction, because of his total lack of play, but bb just seemed to have an agenda with this post.
theohall and tru1cy seem to be suspicious of Remus and his focus on scoop. bb like to quote himself. Scoop comes out and votes back off. Remus still suspicious, but I keep thinking that Remus is being way too hawkish this whole time. LM is still incredulous about Scoop as well. LM then accuses a nonexistent CR for our back against the wall.. bizarre. CR is finally dead after 23 pages
Btw will roll these posts out as a series.. I always find it interesting to read things in one sitting. Provides for an illuminating read.

[Mr Bubbles]

Ok I realized that I have to go back to read some more, but I have my suspions, but I have to reread from page 23 again. I'm at page 32 right now.. I am fairly confused at this point, but I keep going back to some impressions.

Day 3
1 BB2112 I keep wanting to label him bad. His activity and popping in and accusing people just seems off to me.
2 Qantaga I have to go back and read his participation, but he is border line for me. I could vote Qantaga
3 theohall I get a good vibe from theohall.. His play seems fairly normal
4 tru1cy when you get called out by tru1cy for being silent you know his participation is up. But he seems good to me. Nothing out of the ordinary.
5 Remus West Extremely hawkish this game, and I want to clear him with the claims made about him and I suppose I should, but old habits die hard.
6 purge Spotty participation and a bit uneven. Seems suspicious
7 RMC Suspicoius as well. his run in make a claim and back away seems odd.
8 redrun Seems fine to me, but I am not confident.
9 Mr. Bubbles Spectacular innocent.

I will be rereading the last few pages, but the ambiguity of this game has me second guessing a lot right now.

[tru1cy]

 Withdraw Mr.Bubbles 
 


Hi  RMC 
 

[Lassr]

1 BB2112 ---------- --- ---
2 Qantaga ---------- --- ---
3 theohall ---------- Remus West --- Remus West --- purge
4 tru1cy ---------- theohall --- Mr Bubbles --- RMC
5 Remus West ---------- BB2112 --- ---
6 purge ---------- redrun --- ---
7 RMC ---------- --- ---
8 redrun ---------- Remus West
9 Mr. Bubbles ----------
.
RMC -1 ----- tru1cy --
purge -1 ----- theohall



Majority = 5
Deadline is: Monday, April 15th 2:00 central

pr0ner -------- pricked
Chaosraven -------- de-furred
Newcastle -------- bashed
Unagi ------- Cained
Scoop ------- Scooped
LordMortis ------ iced
Holman ------- blown
vorret ------- assploded

[redrun]

I'm referring to a vote against a suspected Galen - now that we have no reason to believe Athena is alive, and 2/3 chance that D'Anna is, we should take away her potential ability to convert Galen - assuming he isn't already there. I explained it several days ago, and rather than my typing s l o w e r & l o n g e r for your benefit, how about you connect some dots?

Redrun has since denied the role - but at the time, Remus (IIRC) had pointed out that was the most likely suspect.

I missed where Remus had pointed this out, so I went back looking for it.

I suppose we could get Remus to N-1 for a reveal - given his reticence I suspect him to be Galen, though if he's good then by doing that we let the dogs topple him. I wonder how that relates to Scoop <--> Remus. Care to chime in, and just pretend we got you to N-1 RM?

Best case scenario is we have a good-converted Galen - this would have required our "Athena" to have scanned him on night 0 before buying it at the hands of the wolves, and is a 1/16 chance if it even works. Should probably verify that...

The only reason we wouldn't want to lynch Galen is if he is converted, but the only way to prove he's good is to hand off the gun. The flaw in Remus's logic is (as I understand it) that he was going to use the gun to do our "will" and prove himself good. There's no reason a wolf couldn't do the same thing though.

Was that about right, Remus? That's how you intended to use it to prove someone?

Two days ago (above) you said you thought Remus was Galen. Now, you are saying that Remus states that I am the most likely Galen (and I don't see Remus saying that). As for Remus's plan - for all that I'm down on him for it, I do see that it involved killing the person who used the gun to prove that it was handed off to a human, and thus proving that Galen wasn't using it himself, and thus proving that Galen had been shifted to good.

For all that I see the advantage of Galen dying today, it really does feel like you are using this to try to get folks looking away from lynching Cylons. I wonder if Galen is already converted and this is your way of trying to assure a Cylon win today.

[Qantaga]

I will be rereading the last few pages, but the ambiguity of this game has me second guessing a lot right now.

That's an interesting comment to make. There's very little ambiguity right now.

- We know that LM was Cain
- We know that Vorret was Doral
- We know that pr0ner was Athena
- We know that Scoop was evil. The only ambiguity is which one of {D'anna, Leoben, Boomer} he was (and we can even make educated guesses about that).
- We know that Chaos, Unagi, and Holman were all Human
- We almost certainly know that Newcastle was Starbuck. It's possible, but less likely, that Chaos or Unagi was Starbuck. Regardless, it is very likely that Starbuck is dead.
- We are virtually certain that both Galen and Anders are still alive.

[Remus West]

9 players - assume 3 Evil (converted Galen)
Lynch and miss and the game is over as they will simply night kill then gun someone down to bring it to 3/3.

9 players - assume 2 Evil (unconverted Galen)
Galen comes forward and gets lynched
7 players tomorrow still 2 Evil
Lynch miss puts us at 5 the next day and not game end yet.

So I can see where folks want to harp on Galen coming forward as it leaves us without our back to the wall. That said, I really think that if he was going to do so then he would already have done so.

bb2112 made some noise regarding having spotted Galen yet still dithers on whether or not to announce the player he thinks is Galen. Why?

[Mr Bubbles]

I could say after my big read that bb has just been giving me the creeps and it is not in his best interest to be honest. I do need to go back and reread his participation. I know I am not one to talk considering my lack of participation to this point, but his contribution seemed uneven.

[Qantaga]

Musings:

- Is bb's "knowledge" of Galen's identity and his subsequent difficulty of spelling it out really a signal from bbGalen to the wolves?

- redrun never answered this question back on Day 1:

- the Cylons are just going to sit on the Chaos vote knowing they've got their default villager - and better yet, one who may not do a reveal.

How can you be so certain that Chaos is a villager?

- I still think our best source of a wolf is in the {Remus, purge, theo} group from Scoop's threat list.

- I don't know what to make of RMC and Mr Bubbles, but I will be sorely vexed if either/both are evil. I would hope a wolf would honor Lassr's Meta request in the original post.

- tru1cy is a puzzle, but I'm glad he's more active this game.

I'm getting close to a vote, but I'm going to mull it over a bit more today and be back tonight.

[Mr Bubbles]

Out of your three I could go for purge or Remus, but theo just doesn't ping me. His play has seemed very normal to me. Maybe a bit less hawkish than other games, which I guess could mean he's trying to blend in, but certainly not really the top of my list.

[Remus West]

I'm honestly puzzled by the folks that say they could vote for me. I'm not sure what more I could possibly have done to prove myself short of being Boomered.

[Mr Bubbles]

I'm honestly puzzled by the folks that say they could vote for me. I'm not sure what more I could possibly have done to prove myself short of being Boomered.

You should have had LM stab you.

[redrun]

- redrun never answered this question back on Day 1:

- the Cylons are just going to sit on the Chaos vote knowing they've got their default villager - and better yet, one who may not do a reveal.

How can you be so certain that Chaos is a villager?

I stated that I thought Scoop was the cylon we should kill on day one, and when Unagi/Remus said they'd switch to Chaos at end of day if need be to ensure the kill, I figured that they'd given the Cylons the short-circuit needed to avoid the Scoop lynch. In other words, I was not saying that I knew Chaos was good, but that I thought Scoop was evil and that the Cylons were already voting for Chaos as their alternative to keep Scoop off the block. Full quote below:

After this long with waiting it'd take some pretty serious irons to the fire to get me to move my vote off of chaosraven. The wait was precisely why I move chaosraven in the first place.

At this point:

Chaosraven doesn't show up - he'll get lynched.
Chaosraven does show up and sez he's sorry - he might live. Where will we be then?

Vote for Scoop.
You can always move back to Chaosraven - both Unagi and Remus have stated they'll do so if we come down to the wire. Now, since I think Scoop is a Bad Cylon, I think it'll be interesting to see who would or wouldn't move to him at this point. I think Remus and Unagi made a mistake in saying they'd move to Chaos - the Cylons are just going to sit on the Chaos vote knowing they've got their default villager - and better yet, one who may not do a reveal.

I don't see any reason that you and Holman can't move to Scoop, unless you know that Scoop is a Cylon and you don't want to kill Cylons if you can avoid it.

[Remus West]

I'm honestly puzzled by the folks that say they could vote for me. I'm not sure what more I could possibly have done to prove myself short of being Boomered.

You should have had LM stab you.

Probably so given the number of folks that said they trusted him versus the number that seem to doubt me.

[Qantaga]

Thanks for replying to my question redrun.

I'm honestly puzzled by the folks that say they could vote for me. I'm not sure what more I could possibly have done to prove myself short of being Boomered.

I'm interested in how you think you have proven yourself. Based on Scoop's claiming you Human? Based on your votes on Scoop and Vorret?

Proven is a strong word, but it sure would be great to have a proven.

Note, I am asking this in all seriousness (with no sarcastic or snarky (tone of voice").

[Remus West]

Thanks for replying to my question redrun.

I'm honestly puzzled by the folks that say they could vote for me. I'm not sure what more I could possibly have done to prove myself short of being Boomered.

I'm interested in how you think you have proven yourself. Based on Scoop's claiming you Human? Based on your votes on Scoop and Vorret?

Proven is a strong word, but it sure would be great to have a proven.

Note, I am asking this in all seriousness (with no sarcastic or snarky (tone of voice").

Proven is too strong. I do think I am in a position that should garner more trust than anyone else currently alive. Yet I seem to be on the top of several folks lists. Shrug. I was willing to die to help prove Scoop should he have been true and manage to scan Galen. He did none of those things so I wasn't given that chance. I was one of the front runners to get both of our outted Evils. Really not sure what else I could have done to this point. I feel like the only reason folks are bringing me up is due to the overall cloud of suspicion that follows me into these games due to my success as a bad guy. I keep wondering if those bringing me up as a target are doing so to try and get the final miss they need to win the game.

I only brought it up because of that possibility.

[Qantaga]

Proven is too strong. I do think I am in a position that should garner more trust than anyone else currently alive.

If you are who you say, what do you believe most likely?

- purge is evil.
- theohall is evil.
- both are evil.
- Scoop named 6 innocents in his threat list.

[Qantaga]

theohall:

Day 1:

theo spends the entire day trying to get Holman lynched because Holman made a Galen signal. At first blush, it would seem counter-intuitive for a wolf to try to lynch a perceived Galen. The wolves would want to keep that as quiet as possible and hope to convert Galen by night. However, it is now apparent that the wolves did not think Holman was Galen, since Holman was outed by Boomer's ability the next day, implying that Holman was not D'anna's scan the night before. If team Evil did not think Holman had called out as Galen, what better way to get a good guy lynched than have EvilBulldogtheo push a manufactured Galen callout all day long?

Day 2:

theo spends almost the entire day pursuing Remus because of Remus' hypothetical. While Remus may be evil, the post that theo latched onto was clearly a hypothetical. It seemed more of a manufactured reason than one with any substance behind it. Yet theo clung to it tenaciously, even when players other than Remus pointed out the obvious fallacy of that particular windmill.

Near the very end of Day 2, theo did switch over to Scoop. However, by then Scoop, who had never really been viewed with anything more than skeptism, was drawing more and more negtive attention. It would have behooved any wolf to get in early on the Scoop vote. And still, it was guilt by association with Remus' hypothetical "slip."

This is where things get interesting, though. theo says, at the end of Day 2:

In other words, Remus West, Scoop, and Vorret all need to go. These three were all contesting Unagi. Why?

I'm still starting with Scoop.

This becomes quite significant come Night 2:

LM has already been proven Cain and has killed Unagi. LM then states that pr0ner is Athena and Remus is a part of the evil team. I implore LM to tell us which is fact and which is speculation. theo calls me on the carpet for "not reading the rules" and for my supposedly wanting to waste Cain's powers. This is after Cain has already used at least two powers and maybe three. I point out very clearly (point one in my response to theo on page 34) that a proven LM with potentially more powers available may not survive the night. theo takes the stand that future powers are more valuable than clarity at a time when confusion benefits evil and harms good.

Then, look what theo says on Day 3 after LM turns up dead:

 Vorret 
 


Not protecting LM was inexcusable.

Remus West goes tomorrow.

and

Well, had Vorret actually done what real Starbuck would have done, wouldn't having LM with powers be better than having LM lose his whatever additional powers he might gain from talking?

I see your side of this. Neither of us are completely wrong and neither of us are completely right. It's a gamble. IMO, LM dying proves Vorret lied about his role, since he knew Newcastle was actually Starbuck and died protecting the evil Scoop. I don't know this to be true, but it makes the most sense.

So, why would a good theo, who previously stated he thought Vorret was evil, want LM to stay silent about what was truth and what was guesswork the night before? Especially since he never entertained any other Starbuck than an already dead Newcastle or a Vorret that he thought was evil going into the night.

[Qantaga]

I was hoping to run through other scenarios, such as Scoop's claim of Remus being Human, the appearance of purge on Scoop's short list, bb's possibity of being Galen or hiding Galen, Vorret's vote on redrun Day 2, and the avoidance of the Chaos vote by those still in the game, etc., but the night got away from me.

We're going to have to ramp things up significantly with a Monday mid-day deadline and the weekend looming.

[theohall]

theohall:

Day 1:

theo spends the entire day trying to get Holman lynched because Holman made a Galen signal. At first blush, it would seem counter-intuitive for a wolf to try to lynch a perceived Galen. The wolves would want to keep that as quiet as possible and hope to convert Galen by night. However, it is now apparent that the wolves did not think Holman was Galen, since Holman was outed by Boomer's ability the next day, implying that Holman was not D'anna's scan the night before. If team Evil did not think Holman had called out as Galen, what better way to get a good guy lynched than have EvilBulldogtheo push a manufactured Galen callout all day long?

Day 2:

theo spends almost the entire day pursuing Remus because of Remus' hypothetical. While Remus may be evil, the post that theo latched onto was clearly a hypothetical. It seemed more of a manufactured reason than one with any substance behind it. Yet theo clung to it tenaciously, even when players other than Remus pointed out the obvious fallacy of that particular windmill.

Near the very end of Day 2, theo did switch over to Scoop. However, by then Scoop, who had never really been viewed with anything more than skeptism, was drawing more and more negtive attention. It would have behooved any wolf to get in early on the Scoop vote. And still, it was guilt by association with Remus' hypothetical "slip."

This is where things get interesting, though. theo says, at the end of Day 2:

In other words, Remus West, Scoop, and Vorret all need to go. These three were all contesting Unagi. Why?

I'm still starting with Scoop.

This becomes quite significant come Night 2:

LM has already been proven Cain and has killed Unagi. LM then states that pr0ner is Athena and Remus is a part of the evil team. I implore LM to tell us which is fact and which is speculation. theo calls me on the carpet for "not reading the rules" and for my supposedly wanting to waste Cain's powers. This is after Cain has already used at least two powers and maybe three. I point out very clearly (point one in my response to theo on page 34) that a proven LM with potentially more powers available may not survive the night. theo takes the stand that future powers are more valuable than clarity at a time when confusion benefits evil and harms good.

Then, look what theo says on Day 3 after LM turns up dead:

 Vorret 
 


Not protecting LM was inexcusable.

Remus West goes tomorrow.

and

Well, had Vorret actually done what real Starbuck would have done, wouldn't having LM with powers be better than having LM lose his whatever additional powers he might gain from talking?

I see your side of this. Neither of us are completely wrong and neither of us are completely right. It's a gamble. IMO, LM dying proves Vorret lied about his role, since he knew Newcastle was actually Starbuck and died protecting the evil Scoop. I don't know this to be true, but it makes the most sense.

So, why would a good theo, who previously stated he thought Vorret was evil, want LM to stay silent about what was truth and what was guesswork the night before? Especially since he never entertained any other Starbuck than an already dead Newcastle or a Vorret that he thought was evil going into the night.

The possibility that LM had more powers has not crossed your mind?

[Remus West]

Proven is too strong. I do think I am in a position that should garner more trust than anyone else currently alive.

If you are who you say, what do you believe most likely?

- purge is evil.
- theohall is evil.
- both are evil.
- Scoop named 6 innocents in his threat list.

I have not the time (though I agree with your later post regarding ramping things up due to looming deadline and weekend - particularly in my case as I will be working all weekend at volleyball tournaments) to continue my read through but right now of the options you listed I feel like the last one is by far the least likely. I have not decided on the other three options. I have doubts about both but I also have some doubts about those doubts. I was feeling more purge as Evil than theohall but your run down on him makes me wonder (along with my own nagging feeling that he is evolving his game and thus playing at being bulldogged rather than actually being that way right now). I need to find time to make my own read and see what I think.

tru1cy's play currently bugs me as well. Not only is it out of character but calling out the silent right now feels less than actually helpful.

[Qantaga]

The possibility that LM had more powers has not crossed your mind?

Of course it crossed my mind. Here, let me highlight it for you in the very post that you quoted to ask this question:

This becomes quite significant come Night 2:

LM has already been proven Cain and has killed Unagi. LM then states that pr0ner is Athena and Remus is a part of the evil team. I implore LM to tell us which is fact and which is speculation. theo calls me on the carpet for "not reading the rules" and for my supposedly wanting to waste Cain's powers.This is after Cain has already used at least two powers and maybe three. I point out very clearly (point one in my response to theo on page 34) that a proven LM with potentially more powers available may not survive the night. theo takes the stand that future powers are more valuable than clarity at a time when confusion benefits evil and harms good.

I also point out that he might have more powers in my post while the event was unfolding.

[tru1cy]

Proven is too strong. I do think I am in a position that should garner more trust than anyone
tru1cy's play currently bugs me as well. Not only is it out of character but calling out the silent right now feels less than actually helpful.

So you would perfer to let them go unchallenge? That's odd to me

[theohall]

So, Q, were you 100% certain Vorret was not Starbuck? I did not know until after LM died. Risk/Reward. We learned an evil cylon by LM not revealing, yet had Vorret actually been Starbuck, protected LM, and LM revealed - where would that have put us? I wanted to keep our powered player powered. Why didn't you, other than the "he needs to reveal more now" thing which is usually what evil players want?

[Mr Bubbles]

Proven is too strong. I do think I am in a position that should garner more trust than anyone
tru1cy's play currently bugs me as well. Not only is it out of character but calling out the silent right now feels less than actually helpful.

So you would perfer to let them go unchallenge? That's odd to me

Unless he feels all the evil cylons are active.

[Qantaga]

So, Q, were you 100% certain Vorret was not Starbuck? I did not know until after LM died. Risk/Reward. We learned an evil cylon by LM not revealing, yet had Vorret actually been Starbuck, protected LM, and LM revealed - where would that have put us? I wanted to keep our powered player powered. Why didn't you, other than the "he needs to reveal more now" thing which is usually what evil players want?

No, I was not 100% certain that Vorret was not Starbuck. However, I thought the likelihood much higher that he was evil than the chance he was good. So did you, according to your post that I quoted above.

Before night ever fell, you said that Remus, Scoop, and Vorret must go. Yet, you were willing to leave us in the dark and trust the protection to someone you thought was evil going into the night. Especially, given that you had concluded the only other Starbuck option was a dead Newcastle. Those are pretty long odds for any possible Risk/Reward payoff.

[Qantaga]

OOC

Lassr, are you hunkered down?

Big storms headed your way.

[Lassr]

OOC

Lassr, are you hunkered down?

Big storms headed your way.

Not hunkered down but getting prepared for storm spotter activation. Luckily the supercell with tornado that crossed over from MS has been absorbed by the front and has died out.

[Qantaga]

I can officially go on record that I'm not Galen. Currently, I'm not certain whom gets my vote. I really do feel like Remus is being set up by the Cylons, so I'm not comfortable placing my vote there..

I would like to hear from Bubbles some more

This is still sticking in my craw. I can't imagine why a good player would say this. The only reason I can think of for a good player to say such a thing is if they are Galen and want to trick the wolves into scanning someone other than themselves to try to stay Good. However, if that were true, why wouldn't they just announce as Galen and let us take them out of the threat zone?

[Qantaga]

Not hunkered down but getting prepared for storm spotter activation. Luckily the supercell with tornado that crossed over from MS has been absorbed by the front and has died out.

I am so glad to hear the supercell has died out.

Stay safe!

[Qantaga]

purge:

Day 1:

- Early vote on theo.

- Not much for several pages until he pops in to "defend" Scoop after redrun puts a vote on Scoop (page 7).

- He spends the next several pages defending Holman, but then (apparently based on a capitalization argument about "bad cylon" between Holman and theo) reverses himself:

I've not been convinced that Holmans "slip" is the real deal. I'm not much for appeasing the rants of Theohall either. That being said, I have no reason I should not vote for Holman. I'm just interested in poking holes in arguments that don't hold water. If we get down to the wire, a lynch and a miss is better than inaction.

This is an interesting turn. Could this theoretically coincide with the time the wolves decide they don't think Holman is really Galen (see: Boomer revealing Holman Day 2). purge withdraws theo in the same post (page 11). Page 15 finds him going through the same material.

- Page 17, he waves a hand at theo and LM as making the most waves, says Scoop is just being Scoop (pre Scoop Athena claim), and repeats that he could vote Holman. He also asks Lassr a question about a passed deadline that appears (IMO) frivilous.

- He is then gone completely while Scoop claims Athena, we eventually lynch Chaos, and Holman is revealed Human by Boomer's power.

Day 2:

- He pops in once a page or so with general observational comments for the next portion of the game.

- Page 30, he comes in with an in-depth post, saying that he can't read theo, but that he would be glad to test theo or me.

- He's then gone completely through LM's killing Unagi, LM's being revealed Cain, and LM stating that pr0ner was Athena. He makes a quick ez-mate-ish pop in during Night 2.

Day 3:

- purge begins Day 3 (page 34) saying that Galen should out himself. A good idea for a Galen who is unconverted and wants to remain on the side of Good.

- In that same post, though, purge starts his (IMO) silly series of questions to Lassr about when/if/how Galen could pass the gun to Athena or otherwise. The answers to his mod questions were so clearly spelled out in the rules that it seemed more like posturing to me and not actual inquiries. He keeps that going and still brings up the question of whether Galen passed the gun to pr0ner (an impossibility) on Night 0.

- He votes redrun based apparently on a Remus' comment about redrun's vote/pulled vote on Holman Day 1.

- He and theo begin debating that particular vote, then purge makes an interesting comment about why he voted on redrun:

Actually, it's me throwing a vote in the direction I've suggested.

One you seemed to wholeheartedly believe in, DAY 1.

Funny, that.

So, purge jumps in with both feet believing redrun to be Galen based solely on:

I'm referring to a vote against a suspected Galen - now that we have no reason to believe Athena is alive, and 2/3 chance that D'Anna is, we should take away her potential ability to convert Galen - assuming he isn't already there. I explained it several days ago, and rather than my typing s l o w e r & l o n g e r for your benefit, how about you connect some dots?

Redrun has since denied the role - but at the time, Remus (IIRC) had pointed out that was the most likely suspect.

He offers no supporting reasoning of his own as to why he thought redrun was Galen (when, as theo points out, if anything Remus' comment on redrun would fit evilCylonredrun, not Galenredrun). In this same post, purge withdraws redrun.

[Qantaga]

RMC, anything?

I hope you're recovering.

If you're getting better and if you're good, now would be the time to get in here with your promised observations.

[Qantaga]

Remus:

For me, everything hinges on Scoop naming Remus Human.

I can easily make either side of an argument that points to goodRemus or evilRemus.

Remus does get points for going after Scoop and Vorret. Although, it must be noted that he spent the first part of Day 2 going after Unagi. He even questioned why Unagi would vote for Vorret after Scoop voted Vorret, then turned around and did the same thing himself.

And, the big hurdle for me is that evilRemus has made concerted pushes against his partners before.

[Qantaga]

So, is no one else concerned that bb's "I've found Galen" might be bbGalen flashiing his own Bat Signal in the sky?

[Remus West]

Proven is too strong. I do think I am in a position that should garner more trust than anyone
tru1cy's play currently bugs me as well. Not only is it out of character but calling out the silent right now feels less than actually helpful.

So you would perfer to let them go unchallenge? That's odd to me

I think it likely that you are fishing in the pond with the fewest (if any) fish.

[Qantaga]

bb:

Day 1:

- bb starts the day with a vote on Vorret, calling it a "newbie" move. That's a weird reason to start with, but now we know he was right. Good intuition, or a wolf getting an early vote on the record against a partner?

- Moves to a vote on Remus.

- Moves to a vote on RMC.

- Page 10, he notes Scoop is the closest to lynch, but asks if Scoop is really the best candidate. He notes that Holman and Remus are the next closest to lynch and indicates he could go back to Remus, of those three.

- He moves his vote to Chaos.

- He has a couple of Day 1 posts (pre Scoop claiming Athena) that could be read as deflecting attention from Scoop:

I posted earlier that I think CR's strategy is to get lynched today as human. Seeing how the more I think about this, the more I'm starting to believe it, I am open to a change.

NC, RW, RMC all seem like good candidates to me. Redrun also seems like an interesting candidate, but not as good as the other three. All 4 seem like better candidates than Scoop. I will check back in tonight.

and

I have to admit that every time someone throws my name out there as a potential Cylon without bothering to give a single reason why it perks my interest and makes me wonder. I feel like people are tossing my name into the mix to look like they are trying when they really are not. RMC has done this all day. bb2112's last post made me feel like that.

You can ask me, or you can make vague comments to help build suspicion against me for when you decide to go full on toaster on my ass the way you are doing to Scoop. I don't know if Scoop is evil, but he has been playing out in front. I do like the way he helps stir the pot, and I think he would be a terrible first day choice.

I don't like the way you seem to be railroading Scoop. At first, I will admit, I was voting you for nonsense reasons. But then you locked on to Scoop and haven't let go. Not like you. I put NC in the same class since he has been talking about Holman non-stop. Though rabid Theo gets a pass for the same behavior, because he is always a bulldog. (The more far fetched the idea, the more convinced he is that he might get fooled, so he holds on to the belief even stronger.) RMC for his unusual quietness. Almost like he has another place to get out his yaya's. Happy?

And another reason, you have a free pass to vote CR and you are not taking it. Actually campaigning against it. Again, not like you.

- With 4 votes on Chaos and 4 votes on Scoop, bb moves his vote to Scoop, making it 5 Scoop and 3 Chaos. This could have been the vote that finally got traction on Scoop (LM and tru1cy soon follow) and led to Scoop needing to try to spoof Athena.

- After the Scoop claim, he moves his vote to RMC (as most everyone moves away from Scoop on the small chance that Scoop may have actually been Athena).

- In the scramble for a lynch candidate after Scoop's claim, he moves his vote to Vorret (moving Vorret to 3 votes).

- Then, he casts the n+1 vote on Chaos after majority had been reached.

- An active Day 1 for bb.

Day 2:

- He makes general observations through the day, but no votes. His first big "speculation" post comes on page 31 where he names RMC and purge as his most likely wolves. A few posts later, puts a vote on purge.

- At the end of page 31, redrun says that Vorret (following Vorret's claim, but still in Day 2) should reveal who he protected (if anyone) on Night 1. bb agrees and RMC immediately points out the fallacy of that idea:

Damn, that is a very good point. Vorret could potentially give us a trusted by telling us who he protected last night. That is if he really is Starbuck.

And ensure that persons death at night, as he can not protect the same person twice.

- He's there for the LMCain events and votes Scoop.

- He is one of the early adopters of the Newcastle as Starbuck theory.

- He joins me in wanting more clarity from LM before Night 2 ends.

- Still in Night 2, he says:

Not as helpful as I had hoped. I was thinking NC was firmly in the believing Scoop camp, but he seemed to pull back at the end and became more cautious.

After rereading for the last hour on the events leading up to Scoop's "reveal" I did come up with a couple of interesting thoughts. I will share more in the morning.

However, he never delivers these interesting thoughts, presumably because the Vorret "non-protect" of LM takes all the attention.

Day 3:

- bb questions Vorret's assertion that Vorret couldn't self-protect.

- Posts lists of all the previous votes.

- Posts his view of players on page 36. Says he's found Galen and wonders what to do.

- Has since said that he isn't as sure about finding Galen as he was originally and laments the decision he has to make to clarify it or let it go.

[Qantaga]

Still more to review. Dinner time now. Back later.

Let's wake up, night is approaching.

[Qantaga]

I think I'm going to scream. I just spent 30 minutes to an hour putting together my observations of redrun and the freaking hotel computer I was using shut down with no warning at all. (My stupid laptop was being used by a client at the time).

All of it went *poof*

Ill be back to summarize it in a while.