[WW] TRON - Game Over - End of Line

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:10 pm

coopasonic wrote:Scoop, two questions:

1) as asked by someone else, if an infected program is derezzed and restored from backup, is it still infected when it is restored.

2) can a program "stack" backups for extra protection? i.e. if I have run a backup, can I execute another backup and be protected from two derezzes or will they both be burned on one derezz?

1) The program is exactly as he was one moment before being derezzed. Yes, he will stay infected.

2) Yes, a program can "stack" back ups.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:11 pm

MOD Notes: Almost everyone has got their orders to me (thanks everyone). I am just waiting on two final set of orders and I can start processing.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:14 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:I am just waiting on two final set of orders and I can start processing.

Clearly the wrong people are being derezzed.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:59 pm

coopasonic wrote:Red is scanned, Yellow is (hard to read and) reserved for scanning.
01|02|03|04|05|06|07|08
09|10|11|12|13|14|15|16
17|18|19|20|21|22|23|24
25|26|27|28|29|30|31|32
33|34|35|36|37|38|39|40
41|42|43|44|45|46|47|48
49|50|51|52|53|54|55|56
57|58|59|60|61|62|63|64

They pickings, they are getting slim.

30 and 31 I guess.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:00 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:MOD Notes: Almost everyone has got their orders to me (thanks everyone). I am just waiting on two final set of orders and I can start processing.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:41 am

MOD Notes: All orders are in. Processing has commenced however load is high (work is busy) so performance is suffering. I will put PMs as a get a chance through out the day and if needed finish up when I get home tonight.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:58 am

Well then what am I supposed to do all day... work? Hey if you want me to do some of that work for you to free up time for important things, send it on over. What I have here is boring me to tears.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:02 pm

A sadistic Sark could really make your life miserable, couldn't he Coop?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:10 pm

stessier wrote:A sadistic Sark could really make your life miserable, couldn't he Coop?

Depends how many permission bits and derezzes he has to burn I suppose. If it was Sark though, wouldn't you expect him to target the infected? I guess Unagi is/was infected, but RMC was clean. I guess multiple people could be doing it and feel a use it or lose it policy is appropriate.

Austin wrote: NEWCASTLE - Infected
RMC - Clean (double scanned)
LASSR - Clean (Double Scanned)
COOPASONIC - Clean
UNAGI - Infected (Double Scanned)
TRU1CY - Clean
CHAOSRAVEN - Clean (Double Scanned)
Austin - Clean
Lagom Lite - Clean
Stessier - Infected

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:29 pm

coopasonic wrote:
stessier wrote:A sadistic Sark could really make your life miserable, couldn't he Coop?
Depends how many permission bits and derezzes he has to burn I suppose.

His derezzes are free as long as he has the permission bits. He can keep going and going and going.

If it was Sark though, wouldn't you expect him to target the infected?

First, they have to take out Flynn. Taking out the infected is necessary eventually, but you want to leave a lot of buffer floating around so that you don't accidentally let Thorne win either. Better to cure the infections now and kill them later once you are relatively certain Thorne is dead.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:35 pm

stessier wrote:
coopasonic wrote:
stessier wrote:A sadistic Sark could really make your life miserable, couldn't he Coop?
Depends how many permission bits and derezzes he has to burn I suppose.
His derezzes are free as long as he has the permission bits. He can keep going and going and going.

Well they aren't free, they each cost a permission bit. He's searched 3 sectors to date, 4 after scoop gets the next emails out, unless MCP is gone already. With 32 bits in 64 sectors he shouldn't have a big pile.

stessier wrote:
If it was Sark though, wouldn't you expect him to target the infected?
First, they have to take out Flynn. Taking out the infected is necessary eventually, but you want to leave a lot of buffer floating around so that you don't accidentally let Thorne win either. Better to cure the infections now and kill them later once you are relatively certain Thorne is dead.

That doesn't make any sense. Taking out infected doesn't really help Thorne. It doesn't hurt him as bad as curing does, but killing the uninfected DEFINITELY helps Thorne.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:48 pm

That doesn't make any sense. Taking out infected doesn't really help Thorne. It doesn't hurt him as bad as curing does, but killing the uninfected DEFINITELY helps Thorne.

Oh how wrong you are My Little Malicious Codepiece. Killing infected helps Thorne just as much as killing uninfected because it is still one less person he has to worry about. Someone who can never be cured or count against his victory condition.

And the argument for killing uninfected at this point is that he's trying to take out Thorne (since that is what he will show). Fine line to walk right there.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:49 pm

Drat - somehow deleted my comment on this part

coopasonic wrote:
stessier wrote:
coopasonic wrote:
stessier wrote:A sadistic Sark could really make your life miserable, couldn't he Coop?
Depends how many permission bits and derezzes he has to burn I suppose.
His derezzes are free as long as he has the permission bits. He can keep going and going and going.
Well they aren't free, they each cost a permission bit. He's searched 3 sectors to date, 4 after scoop gets the next emails out, unless MCP is gone already. With 32 bits in 64 sectors he shouldn't have a big pile.

Sark is Team ENCOM and as such has searched 6 sectors to date. And he has found at least 2 permission bits - better than I've managed to do.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:50 pm

By the way - assuming Tron is still alive - do we ask him to come forward and derezz a player today if we don't win? When should he use that Deadly Disk?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:55 pm

stessier wrote:By the way - assuming Tron is still alive - do we ask him to come forward and derezz a player today if we don't win? When should he use that Deadly Disk?

The Deadly Disk is a protection against the Thorne victory condition. I wouldn't throw it away for nothing. Who would you derezz?

At this point your logic is baffling. I'm starting to wish I had those system scans back.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:07 pm

coopasonic wrote:
stessier wrote:By the way - assuming Tron is still alive - do we ask him to come forward and derezz a player today if we don't win? When should he use that Deadly Disk?
The Deadly Disk is a protection against the Thorne victory condition. I wouldn't throw it away for nothing. Who would you derezz?

At this point your logic is baffling. I'm starting to wish I had those system scans back.

How is it protection from Thorne? We'll never know for sure who Thorne is. So when do we use the disc?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:10 pm

I agree.

Thorne may have been behind the RMC kill (or some ENCOM may have thought they found Flynn or Thorne)

I think that Remus and Theo were likely searches for Flynn/Thorne/MCP/Sark/Quora/Tron/DaftPunks. (or perhaps even directly targeted)
(i.e. had no 'infected' reasoning behind it)

In any case, there is a very real chance that USERS can't win this game.

There.

I said it.

5 Users (ENCOM/Corruption) have Permission Bits that won't add to the total.
(If there is no over lap with the above 5) 3 other users (and their Bits) are derezzed.

If enough Permission Bits have been 'derezzed' or are held by "named programs that will never be part of team USER", then the USER victory is a dead-end.

In addition, the more players trying for a USER victory, the harder that victory is to achieve.

IF that is a dead end, the two options become:

Help ENCOM kill Thorne and any infected Daft Punk, and clean up / kill every other infected program.
Help Corruption find and kill the remainder of the Named Programs that aren't part of Team Corruption.

Now, us programs have been spending these Downtimes finding things that may align better with helping (or, through inaction, hurting) one of those victory conditions.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:14 pm

Cleaning infected programs or the reduction of active programs actually helps the users, as the needed number of bits is determined by the number of programs and their demographic information. So if the number of bits is decreasing, it's in Flynn's best interest to see the number of programs reduced. Which, now that I think about it, seems really odd for the Users to get into a position to benefit from derezzes.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:26 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Which, now that I think about it, seems really odd for the Users to get into a position to benefit from derezzes.

Meh, they'll just re-write the pieces of code inbetween mouthfuls of cheetoes and mtndew.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:36 pm

Here's how I see each team moving toward victory.

Corruption:
Infect (only the named can do it) everyone
Kill the uninfected
Find and kill Quorra, but there are a lot of anti-virus out there too
Summary: killing is the fastest way to get there

ENCOM:
Find and kill Flynn while having admin privs and there are only 3 to be had
Find and kill Corruption named
clean infected
Summary: you have to kill flynn and will have no idea if you succeeded

Users:
clean infected
kill infected, preferably with Lynches since they redistribute the permission bits, preferably the other teams named
Summary: need to minimize # of perm bits needed for victory.

It seems like the unnamed programs aren't of much help anywhere. Powers available are based on code found plus wild guesses made based on posts and random conjecture.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:38 pm

Here, let's see if team Users can win. Everyone transfer their permission bits to me.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:43 pm

coopasonic wrote:Here, let's see if team Users can win. Everyone transfer their permission bits to me.

While I know this was a joke - Users just have to be in possession of the correct number of bits to win - not any specific User.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:49 pm

Right, but there's no way for the users to know where they stand on the count and if Unagi is right or not about Users being unable to win or at what point they are unable to win. This would be way easier if header info was shared on derezz.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:52 pm

I will agree that if we don't have the bits to win this downtime, the Users victory becomes very unlikely. there were will be a minimum number of infected remaining and maximum number of bits assuming most or all sectors have been searched.

It will be time to start working toward another victory condition and Flynn, Quorra and Tron can pack it in as once the unnamed abandon them it will be basically impossible for them to win.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:55 pm

coopasonic wrote:It will be time to start working toward another victory condition and Flynn, Quorra and Tron can pack it in as once the unnamed abandon them it will be basically impossible for them to win.

Actually, unnamed programs leaving would make it more likely the Users will hit their victory condition as it is Users + 2x infected. Fewer Users, fewer bits needed.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:01 pm

Cleaning an infected means that the number of bits required by the users goes down by one. Killing an infected means the number of bits required goes down by two.

I say we kill infected by day, let Quorra clean by night.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:03 pm

stessier wrote:
coopasonic wrote:It will be time to start working toward another victory condition and Flynn, Quorra and Tron can pack it in as once the unnamed abandon them it will be basically impossible for them to win.
Actually, unnamed programs leaving would make it more likely the Users will hit their victory condition as it is Users + 2x infected. Fewer Users, fewer bits needed.

wrong

Rulez wrote:User team members must possess Permission Bits equal to the number of uninfected programs PLUS twice the number of infected programs active on the system

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:05 pm

coopasonic wrote:
stessier wrote:
coopasonic wrote:It will be time to start working toward another victory condition and Flynn, Quorra and Tron can pack it in as once the unnamed abandon them it will be basically impossible for them to win.
Actually, unnamed programs leaving would make it more likely the Users will hit their victory condition as it is Users + 2x infected. Fewer Users, fewer bits needed.
wrong

Rulez wrote:User team members must possess Permission Bits equal to the number of uninfected programs PLUS twice the number of infected programs active on the system

Huh. Good to know.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:06 pm

Sorry, Coop - out of controversial topics. Hope this let you kill at least part of your afternoon.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:09 pm

stessier wrote:
coopasonic wrote:It will be time to start working toward another victory condition and Flynn, Quorra and Tron can pack it in as once the unnamed abandon them it will be basically impossible for them to win.
Actually, unnamed programs leaving would make it more likely the Users will hit their victory condition as it is Users + 2x infected. Fewer Users, fewer bits needed.

Yep, I highly encourage all users to join ENCOM or Corruption except for a select few with a lot of permission bits and I'll tag along.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:09 pm

coopasonic wrote:Right, but there's no way for the users to know where they stand on the count and if Unagi is right or not about Users being unable to win or at what point they are unable to win. This would be way easier if header info was shared on derezz.

Well, today is the Uptime that was your broadcasted 'target', Right?

If the USER victory isn't announced here is what that means:

There are not enough Permission Bits.
or
Flynn is Dead.

Nothing can be done about the latter, but the former can be talked about more.

Either it's Not enough because:
there are Too Many Infected to over come (I have to guess this Uptime will be our all time low on Infections)
and/or
there are Too Many Programs to over come. (so, some need die!?, that's not very good)

So, there will be a body of anonymous programs that will be on Team User this Uptime and they will be sitting there wondering if they are on a team that has any shot to win.

They will have a choice to join ENCOM:

toss out their Back-ups (and probably be under fair risk to be derezzed themselves)
would be trying to System Scan and expose/kill the Named Corruption programs.
Use Virus Scans and Anti-Virus to clean as they go.

They will have a choice to join Corruption:

wait to be infected. Sit on their Anti-Virus, Sit on their Virus-Scans.
would be trying to System Scan and expose to infection / kill the Named ENCOM/USER programs.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:13 pm

stessier wrote:Sorry, Coop - out of controversial topics. Hope this let you kill at least part of your afternoon.

I have a couple meetings this afternoon to break up the boredom and now you have me thinking about what happens when Users don't/can't win. I've been focused on a user victory pretty steadily, now I'm having to consider the other options.

If Thorne or MCP would like to step up and make their arguments, I'd like to hear them.

Also, since any of us that joined users are stuck there for an extra day, we could see what else we could do as a last gasp for a User victory. Sark isn't going to like this, but Lynching MCP and getting his bits is high on my list. Having the most scans he potentially has the most bits. So again, if MCP wants to identify himself, we're listening.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:15 pm

Lassr wrote:
stessier wrote:
coopasonic wrote:It will be time to start working toward another victory condition and Flynn, Quorra and Tron can pack it in as once the unnamed abandon them it will be basically impossible for them to win.
Actually, unnamed programs leaving would make it more likely the Users will hit their victory condition as it is Users + 2x infected. Fewer Users, fewer bits needed.
Yep, I highly encourage all users to join ENCOM or Corruption except for a select few with a lot of permission bits and I'll tag along.

See my rules clarification above, this is wrong.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:32 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Lassr wrote:
stessier wrote:
coopasonic wrote:It will be time to start working toward another victory condition and Flynn, Quorra and Tron can pack it in as once the unnamed abandon them it will be basically impossible for them to win.
Actually, unnamed programs leaving would make it more likely the Users will hit their victory condition as it is Users + 2x infected. Fewer Users, fewer bits needed.
Yep, I highly encourage all users to join ENCOM or Corruption except for a select few with a lot of permission bits and I'll tag along.
See my rules clarification above, this is wrong.

I know. We actually need to terminate some programs if there are not enough permission bits for the user team to win. Problem is knowing if the winning condition cannot be met.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:52 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:MOD Notes: All orders are in. Processing has commenced however load is high (work is busy) so performance is suffering. I will put PMs as a get a chance through out the day and if needed finish up when I get home tonight.

I can confirm that PMs are starting to roll out.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:23 pm

System Uptime 4

System Uptime commencing in 3 - 2 - 1 - System fully online.

Kevin Flynn: The Grid. A digital frontier. I tried to picture clusters of information as they moved through the computer. What did they look like? Ships, motorcycles? Were the circuits like freeways? I kept dreaming of a world I thought I'd never see. And then, one day... I got in.

Functional Programs:
1 THIF_NEWCASTLE
3 SEAL_ISGRIMNUR
5 DNGR_LASSR
6 YCAR_COOPASONIC
8 EMPY_QANTAGA
9 ALIN_SECTOID
10 STCH_STESSIER
11 POPP_MR_BUBBLES
12 DAVB_LAGOM_LITE
13 AFRI_AUSTIN
14 SUSI_UNAGI
15 BNDK_TRU1CY
16 SMPN_CHAOSRAVEN

Derezzed Programs:
7 BABY_REMUS_WEST
2 RBRD_THEOHALL
4 MOON_RMC

Majority to terminate is 7.

The hard deadline to terminate is Wednesday, February 16, 2011 by 10:00 pm (Eastern Time Zone). If no majority is met by the hard deadline we will move to Downtime 4 and there will be no termination.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:27 pm

OK, so I guess the users didn't win.

We're stuck on this team for another day. What shall we do next?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:31 pm

MOD Notes: Just an FYI, since Flynn is required for the USER'S Victory condition, I will announce in the main game thread if he is derezzed.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:35 pm

coopasonic wrote:We're stuck on this team for another day. What shall we do next?

There is one way to improve the users odds and that is to lynch MCP. Does anyone have any nominations for MCP, ya know, other than me?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:43 pm

What about virus scan results?

And why does it help to eliminate MCP? I would think Sark would be a more useful target (although MCP isn't bad). Thorne wouldn't hurt either. Punks would be kind of nice. Does that about cover it??