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Why I left

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Lorini
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Why I left

Post by Lorini »

I left Octopus months ago because I felt harassed by someone repeatedly criticizing me, repeatedly going after me, and nothing was done. There is no protection against harassment here, I was on my own. I don't need the kind of treatment I was subject and so I left. This forum is already too white and too male and unless there's some kind of change, I'm not ever coming back. I used to really enjoy discussing sports here but a couple of people who were allowed to continually criticize, continually harass, ruined it for me.

I thought about this a couple of days ago and realized I just disappeared without a word. So I'm rectifying that to let you know my issues.

Jennifer Schlickbernd, a Black woman
Steer into the drift.

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LordMortis
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Re: Why I left

Post by LordMortis »

:( I especially appreciate your take on games, which is still the bond the brings me here. Your presence will be missed. I'll remember you any time I go back to ONI.

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Smoove_B
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Re: Why I left

Post by Smoove_B »

LordMortis wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:03 pm
:( I especially appreciate your take on games, which is still the bond the brings me here. Your presence will be missed.
+1

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$iljanus
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Re: Why I left

Post by $iljanus »

When it stops being fun I understand why one would stop posting. That said I really enjoyed your banter during playoffs and I hope that someday you may feel comfortable posting in other topics. Until that day hopefully happens, stay safe and healthy!

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Rumpy
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Re: Why I left

Post by Rumpy »

I know exactly what you mean. I've had several situations where it was totally hands-off. I understand the need for it, but... at the same time, when someone really does need help, nobody seems to be at hand and we're left to fend for ourselves. I'm sorry it's gotten to making you leave. You have as much right as anyone else for being here. Those who've harrassed you should maybe think deep and hard about what they've done in making someone uncomfortable.
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ImLawBoy
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Re: Why I left

Post by ImLawBoy »

First of all, let me say that I’m glad you’ve posted for a number of reasons. To start with, you stopped posting shortly after COVID-19 hit and I recall you were concerned about your health conditions. I was worried that something had happened, so I’m glad you’re doing OK.

I am also glad that you posted that you were feeling uncomfortable and harassed, although I’m sorry you felt that way. To the extent I contributed to any of that, I apologize. I know that we discussed sports on multiple occasions and we didn’t always agree, although I always thought our discussions remained respectful. I certainly appreciated your perspectives, and part of that was knowing that you came at the issues from a very different vantage than I did (i.e., Black woman vs. white man). If you feel that I was crossing the line, I would appreciate knowing about it (either here or in DM, if you prefer). I’m not perfect and if I’m causing a problem, I want to know.

Regarding moderation style, we certainly have gotten more hands off as the years have gone by. I don’t think we were ever all that heavy handed, but we do tend to let things play out more now than we did in the past. A mod may step in to ask folks to take a breath or go easy, but even that’s not guaranteed, particularly if no report has been made. Even if a report has been made, there are times we just let it go – usually because in our estimation things haven’t reached the point where they require active moderation. We’ve always felt that the forums are populated by mature adults and we are usually pretty good at sorting out our differences amicably. I don’t recall seeing any reports that you made about being harassed, but that may admittedly be my own faulty memory – you may have made reports that I felt were in the “keep an eye on things, but don’t step in yet” category.

One of my goals here has always been to be as welcoming as possible to as wide of a group of people as possible, and to permit vigorous (although respectful) debate on a wide variety of topics. As you note this is a very white male place, but I’ve never noticed open hostility toward posters based on race or gender. I think over the years we’ve gotten better about some of the less welcoming elements that being dominated by white males can bring (there’s much less posting of scantily clad women, for example), but I’m saying that from the perspective of a white male who wants to believe that I’m doing the right thing. If there are still things that are going on here that are making our forums inhospitable to people who don’t fit the cis Christian white male paradigm, I urge people to let us know (this is an invitation to Lorini or anyone else). I won’t promise you that things will definitely change, but I will promise you that I will try to look at things from an open minded perspective specifically trying to identify where I may have failed to make this an inclusive place.

To sum up, I apologize for any part I’ve played in harassing or preventing harassment based on your race or gender. That was never my intent and I’m genuinely upset that you felt this harassment. I sincerely hope you’ll change your mind and stick around and give us a chance, but I also understand if you don’t want to. If anyone feels that they’re being harassed or unfairly targeted, please let me or another staff member know. I’ll be honest and say that I don’t have a great desire to get more heavy-handed with moderation, but if I’m missing a larger problem here, then I may have to reconsider that. (I also just want to note here that wading into the R&P forum and being antagonistic is not going to get a lot of sympathy – posters are going to have to have a thicker skin there. While I still wouldn’t tolerate harassment of a poster based on race/sex/LGBTQ+ identity, etc., throwing around politically incendiary statements is likely to result in the thrower getting burnt a bit, too.)

Again, thank you for coming here to post this. I’m glad to hear from you and I hope we’ll continue hearing from you. My DMs are also open if there’s anything you want to communicate in private.

Ken
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Lorini
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Re: Why I left

Post by Lorini »

Thanks Imlawboy. I will give it a shot once again and if I feel as if I'm having an issue, then I'll PM you and we can discuss it. It just felt like certain people were coming after me, and no one cared enough to stop them.

Your concern about me getting and perhaps dying was one reason I posted, I did leave about that time and I was thinking maybe people thought I got the disease and died. Nope, haven't gotten it (VERY strict about wearing a mask!!!) and hope not to!

No, I never post in R&P I understand things are different there.

Jennifer Schlickbernd
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$iljanus
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Re: Why I left

Post by $iljanus »


Lorini wrote:
Your concern about me getting and perhaps dying was one reason I posted, I did leave about that time and I was thinking maybe people thought I got the disease and died. Nope, haven't gotten it (VERY strict about wearing a mask!!!) and hope not to!

No, I never post in R&P I understand things are different there.

Jennifer Schlickbernd
Yeah I had this in the back of my mind so thanks for giving us the heads up. Of all the things I never figured it would be a pandemic that would worry me about your absence. Sure, wildfires or the Dodgers choking being the last straw I could understand but not this current shitshow.

Be well!

Kevin




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Re: Why I left

Post by coopasonic »

I'm sorry for your experience.

I know I am guilty of being "playfully" mean with a lot of folks and at heart I really am an asshole (who works every day to be more of an ally), but if someone tells me to back off I will, no questions asked. On a forum it can be hard to tell how your words are being received. If I make anyone feel uncomfortable, please tell me and I hope that goes for most everyone here.

I am not saying that is what happened to you. We do certainly have some more... intense people.

I'm glad to see ThatLawyerPerson is engaged.
-Coop

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LordMortis
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Re: Why I left

Post by LordMortis »

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:12 pm
I know I am guilty of being "playfully" mean with a lot of folks and at heart I really am an asshole (who works every day to be more of an ally), but if someone tells me to back off I will, no questions asked. On a forum it can be hard to tell how your words are being received. If I make anyone feel uncomfortable, please tell me and I hope that goes for most everyone here.
+1 I had no idea I was pissing off Z Corn nigh on constantly until he told me and that's on me. :oops:

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Re: Why I left

Post by Blackhawk »

And I've realized that my ribbing was pissing Daehawk off and backed off myself. I'll still speak up on issues, but not so much on less important stuff. You can't always know when you're making someone mad or hurting them, especially if you've accidentally pushed their buttons without realizing it. When you're face to face with someone those kinds of reactions are obvious. Tone of voice, warning looks, body language. Even I can catch on sometimes. People don't always catch on when it is just text. Some of us less than others. So, as the others have said, if I was in any way involved, I'm sorry.
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Z-Corn
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Re: Why I left

Post by Z-Corn »

Lorini wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:11 am
I left Octopus months ago because I felt harassed by someone repeatedly criticizing me, repeatedly going after me, and nothing was done.
I just yesterday looked up your profile to see when you last logged-on because I hadn't seen a post from you in so long.

I don't tend to read the sports threads much so I'm sorry to say I haven't seen the posts that made you uncomfortable. I get it though.

I'm glad you are safe and healthy. I always liked reading your opinions because you are a different person than most of us. I hope you stick around, even if I don't read you in the sports threads.

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Z-Corn
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Re: Why I left

Post by Z-Corn »

OK, edited for being in poor form. Because this thread isn't about me.
Last edited by Z-Corn on Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why I left

Post by Isgrimnur »

....dude.

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RunningMn9
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Re: Why I left

Post by RunningMn9 »

Lorini wrote:I left Octopus months ago because I felt harassed by someone repeatedly criticizing me, repeatedly going after me, and nothing was done. There is no protection against harassment here, I was on my own. I don't need the kind of treatment I was subject and so I left. This forum is already too white and too male and unless there's some kind of change, I'm not ever coming back. I used to really enjoy discussing sports here but a couple of people who were allowed to continually criticize, continually harass, ruined it for me.

I thought about this a couple of days ago and realized I just disappeared without a word. So I'm rectifying that to let you know my issues.

Jennifer Schlickbernd, a Black woman
We left at different times for seemingly different reasons, but I can at least appreciate how you feel on some level. I hope I’ve never done anything upsetting, but if I did it was at least a long time ago, and I’m more mellow now.

The forums have long suffered from a lack of new blood, and a loss of old blood. Each unique voice that leaves is a real problem for those that stay beyond.

I hope you are able to enjoy however much time you want to spend here, and it really should be a more pleasant place for everyone except the handful of persistent trolls about.
And in banks across the world
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And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
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Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Zaxxon
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Re: Why I left

Post by Zaxxon »

RunningMn9 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:11 pm
I hope I’ve never done anything upsetting, but if I did it was at least a long time ago, and I’m more mellow now.

The forums have long suffered from a lack of new blood, and a loss of old blood. Each unique voice that leaves is a real problem for those that stay beyond.

I hope you are able to enjoy however much time you want to spend here, and it really should be a more pleasant place for everyone except the handful of persistent trolls about.
All of this.

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Smoove_B
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Re: Why I left

Post by Smoove_B »

Z-Corn wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:55 pm
I'm glad you are safe and healthy. I always liked reading your opinions because you are a different person than most of us. I hope you stick around, even if I don't read you in the sports threads.
Yes. I don't talk about sportsball, so I'm clueless there. You're a board gamer - come talk about that, Lorini (assuming you want to). I always like hearing about more board games. :D

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TheMix
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Re: Why I left

Post by TheMix »

Smoove especially loves recommendations for games that he simply must buy... :D

I also don't follow many sports. Only recently having to take up hockey because of the missus. So I'm only aware in the sense that I did some some back and forth a few times that I thought was more in the "playful ribbing" camp. I sincerely hope that there was no actual malice. As noted, we are a small community. And we've lost so many over the years. :(

I too hope you'll stick around. As a wildlife biologist by education, diversity is important! :) And I like seeing other perspectives. I often learn things I didn't know.
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Lorini
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Re: Why I left

Post by Lorini »

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:12 pm
Z-Corn wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:55 pm
I'm glad you are safe and healthy. I always liked reading your opinions because you are a different person than most of us. I hope you stick around, even if I don't read you in the sports threads.
Yes. I don't talk about sportsball, so I'm clueless there. You're a board gamer - come talk about that, Lorini (assuming you want to). I always like hearing about more board games. :D
The reason I've never posted in the board game thread is that it seems like most people are interested in thematic games, which I'm not interested in, and kind of look down on Euros which are my main jam. I'm happy to talk about Euros, I'll give it a shot.
Steer into the drift.

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TheMix
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Re: Why I left

Post by TheMix »

Lorini wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:30 pm
Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:12 pm
Z-Corn wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:55 pm
I'm glad you are safe and healthy. I always liked reading your opinions because you are a different person than most of us. I hope you stick around, even if I don't read you in the sports threads.
Yes. I don't talk about sportsball, so I'm clueless there. You're a board gamer - come talk about that, Lorini (assuming you want to). I always like hearing about more board games. :D
The reason I've never posted in the board game thread is that it seems like most people are interested in thematic games, which I'm not interested in, and kind of look down on Euros which are my main jam. I'm happy to talk about Euros, I'll give it a shot.
Sadly, I won't be able to participate in that discussion. I almost exclusively stick to cooperative games. It's not that I dislike Euro games. But I'm not a good loser. I recognized that about myself years ago and found the best thing to do was to avoid games that made me behave in ways that I didn't like. However, I'm happy to read a discussion about Euro games and dream. :D
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Smoove_B
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Re: Why I left

Post by Smoove_B »

Lorini wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:30 pm
The reason I've never posted in the board game thread is that it seems like most people are interested in thematic games, which I'm not interested in, and kind of look down on Euros which are my main jam. I'm happy to talk about Euros, I'll give it a shot.
Yeah, it probably tilts more thematic, but I think there are definitely things from all over that get posted. Also, if you do solo gaming as well I'm always up for hearing more about anything that solos well. :D

I definitely trend towards solo/coop games right now, but I'm also into pretty much anything with miniatures and dice. And war games. Also deck builders. So yeah...I like games. :lol:

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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Why I left

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Lorini wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:30 pm
The reason I've never posted in the board game thread is that it seems like most people are interested in thematic games, which I'm not interested in, and kind of look down on Euros which are my main jam. I'm happy to talk about Euros, I'll give it a shot.
By all means, dive in.

Personally, I certainly do not look down on Euro games at all. Short of someone pulling out Munchkin or Monopoly, I'm typically content to play pretty much any board game; e.g. I still enjoy playing Agricola, Caylus 1303, Ticket to Ride: Europe, Lords of Waterdeep and The Castles of Burgundy to name a handful of Euros that come to mind. Also, I'd go as far as saying Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization may well be the one of the very best digital adaptations of a board game I've ever played.
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster

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Re: Why I left

Post by Blackhawk »

Lorini wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:30 pm

The reason I've never posted in the board game thread is that it seems like most people are interested in thematic games, which I'm not interested in, and kind of look down on Euros which are my main jam. I'm happy to talk about Euros, I'll give it a shot.
Hah! And the reason I'm always hesitant to discuss boardgames elsewhere is that I feel like thematic games are looked down on (I mean, the hobbiest term is 'Ameritrash' after all.) But just because I'm attracted to thematic games doesn't mean I don't enjoy others!
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Zarathud
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Re: Why I left

Post by Zarathud »

Glad you’re thinking about staying. I don’t talk about sports ball and I can be a pedantic jackass who lays it on thick in R&P. Being an opinionated asshole is a side effect of work and stress.

I hope that anyone who ever feels I’m being unfair and going too far will either argue back or tell me I’m being a dick.

I would rather have more voices than less. Coming from a large family means I like many voices and opinions. The OOers I have met are better and more different than I ever expected. I’ve enjoyed all of them.

As for board games, I’ve seen everyone play everything. I’m more into Euros and combo engine builders than most of the Chicago crew. They’ll pretty much play anything.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Why I left

Post by dbt1949 »

I never got into sports too much since I've been here but I have followed and enjoyed your comments in the rest of the forum. Like what's the name? Oxygen not included and Factorio or something like that.
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Re: Why I left

Post by Sudy »

I hope you don't need to leave again Lorini, I would miss you. I hope that any harassment is investigated and addressed. As this is the first time I can recall something of this severity being reported, I will trust that the admins/moderators have now looked into it. If not, or it begins again, the community needs to know about it. It shouldn't fall to you alone; others must speak up if they witness it. If I have ever contributed to any of these circumstances, or stood by as they have taken place, I apologize.
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Re: Why I left

Post by hitbyambulance »

Sudy wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:46 am
I hope you don't need to leave again Lorini, I would miss you. I hope that any harassment is investigated and addressed. As this is the first time I can recall something of this severity being reported, I will trust that the admins/moderators have now looked into it. If not, or it begins again, the community needs to know about it. It shouldn't fall to you alone; others must speak up if they witness it. If I have ever contributed to any of these circumstances, or stood by as they have taken place, I apologize.
yes, this.

years ago (this was on Livejournal actually), a person i considered a friend suddenly started hounding me in comments, finding issue with everything i said. it got to the point where they would just post a reply in a discussion thread, on another user's page, that had nothing to do with them, just to yell at me. i finally went 'what is wrong with you?' and they gave an answer that indicated there were likely underlying (and likely unrelated) issues at play, but their feelings towards me were real for no valid or discernible reason. we haven't talked since, and it bothers me that people can just go loco on you like that.

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Re: Why I left

Post by Pyperkub »

I would miss you too. Need a fellow Bruin on the boards!
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dbt1949
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Re: Why I left

Post by dbt1949 »

UCLA fan! Nobody told me about that! Nevermind.
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Lorini
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Re: Why I left

Post by Lorini »

So my college football preferences go like this

UCLA>USC>California PAC 12 teams>PAC 12
Will never root for the SEC teams, sorry

This means that for any given college football game shown in my area, I nearly always have a team to root for :).

I am back for the time being, we shall see how it goes, thanks for the messages, I really appreciate them!!
Steer into the drift.

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Re: Why I left

Post by Pyperkub »

Lorini wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:11 am
So my college football preferences go like this

UCLA>USC>California PAC 12 teams>PAC 12
Will never root for the SEC teams, sorry

This means that for any given college football game shown in my area, I nearly always have a team to root for :).

I am back for the time being, we shall see how it goes, thanks for the messages, I really appreciate them!!
I can root for SEC teams against SEC teams ;) - it's still good football to watch - regardless of what you think, they put out a great product, with a great atmosphere.

I've been looking forward to the UCLA @ LSU game for years as a roadtrip. Also did the roadtrip to Texas A&M, which was a lot of fun.
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Re: Why I left

Post by Lassr »

I hope you decide to stick around and I hope the harassment stops or is stopped.

A wider variety of people makes for better conversations.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.

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Re: Why I left

Post by Jeff V »

Lassr wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:45 pm
I hope you decide to stick around and I hope the harassment stops or is stopped.

A wider variety of people makes for better conversations.
You would be a huge loss to this forum. I don't post much in the gaming forum anymore, and I figured that baseball off season was why you hadn't posted in EBG for awhile (and I don't follow that thread closely). But we've virtually known each other a long time...before GG even (the CGM forum I think? That and some playtest teams like SMAC).

If harassment is occurring, don't let it slide. I know most of the mods here personally and none of them would tolerate such a thing (assuming you weren't feeling persecuted for being a Dodger fan!) The reason I've stuck around here as long as I have is while I certainly get ribbed a lot, I've never felt disrespected personally (well, maybe once and I took a sabbatical). I hate the thought someone here is cancerous to the well-being of the community.

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gbasden
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Re: Why I left

Post by gbasden »

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:29 pm
LordMortis wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:03 pm
:( I especially appreciate your take on games, which is still the bond the brings me here. Your presence will be missed.
+1
+another

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gbasden
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Re: Why I left

Post by gbasden »

Lorini wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:30 pm
Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:12 pm
Z-Corn wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:55 pm
I'm glad you are safe and healthy. I always liked reading your opinions because you are a different person than most of us. I hope you stick around, even if I don't read you in the sports threads.
Yes. I don't talk about sportsball, so I'm clueless there. You're a board gamer - come talk about that, Lorini (assuming you want to). I always like hearing about more board games. :D
The reason I've never posted in the board game thread is that it seems like most people are interested in thematic games, which I'm not interested in, and kind of look down on Euros which are my main jam. I'm happy to talk about Euros, I'll give it a shot.
I play a lot of Euros, so I'd love to hear your current favorites.

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Fardaza
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:13 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Why I left

Post by Fardaza »

Lorini wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:11 am

I am back for the time being, we shall see how it goes, thanks for the messages, I really appreciate them!!
Glad to hear it Lorini. I am pretty oblivious to most of what's going on around here. Some of that's intentional after watching another board blow up over similar issues.

I hadn't even noticed you're from Santa Clarita. I'm in Simi Valley, but only for about another week. Then I move to Tennessee. I would have loved to meet you in person. My board gaming buddies all moved in the last few years, and my wife is not a great fan of games.

Glad you have decided to come back and give the board another try!

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Enough
Posts: 14398
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Serendipity
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Re: Why I left

Post by Enough »

Lorini wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:11 am
So my college football preferences go like this

UCLA>USC>California PAC 12 teams>PAC 12
Will never root for the SEC teams, sorry

This means that for any given college football game shown in my area, I nearly always have a team to root for :).

I am back for the time being, we shall see how it goes, thanks for the messages, I really appreciate them!!
Oh thank goodness! I was just catching up on EBG and was horrified by your post. Just know that I greatly appreciate your contributions and glad you are going to stick around. Your comments are always fun and insightful. Definitely feel free to IM me if you need anything!
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell

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KKBlue
Posts: 3904
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:07 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Why I left

Post by KKBlue »

Lorini wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:11 am
I am back for the time being, we shall see how it goes, thanks for the messages, I really appreciate them!!
Please stay around :D
"Why do people say grow some balls? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding!" - Betty White

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